What is the English pronunciation of “pain au chocolat”?
How do Brits and Americans pronounce pain au chocolat?
pronunciation french foreign-phrases
edited Mar 21 at 14:29
L. F.
1054
asked Mar 21 at 4:09
arisaris
15714
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show 13 more comments
How do Brits and Americans pronounce pain au chocolat?
pronunciation french foreign-phrases
edited Mar 21 at 14:29
L. F.
1054
asked Mar 21 at 4:09
arisaris
15714
New contributor
aris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
31
There is no English pronunciation that I know of. It's only a French word. So, it should be pronounced as per any French dictionary. (That answers the title of your question.) How English speakers actually do pronounce it depends on how well they speak French . . .
– Jason Bassford
Mar 21 at 6:06
9
Well for example the English pronuncation of croissant is to pronounce the T at the end. The English pronunciation of Paris, France etc. are all different than the French pronunciation. So I don't think that words of French origin in English are always or normally pronounced in the original manner. Even people with French surnames in the US have long anglicized the pronunciation of their names.
– aris
Mar 21 at 6:34
6
@JasonBassford I disagree. In England, "pain" is usually pronounced identically to "pan", rather than nasalized as in French.
– David Richerby
Mar 21 at 10:06
10
As a side note I found that in the US they're commonly called chocolate croissants instead of pan au chocolate
– Amicable
Mar 21 at 10:23
3
@Strawberry dont use 'Chocolatine', it is south-west propaganda.
– aloisdg
Mar 21 at 12:26
|
show 13 more comments
How do Brits and Americans pronounce pain au chocolat?
pronunciation french foreign-phrases
edited Mar 21 at 14:29
L. F.
1054
asked Mar 21 at 4:09
arisaris
15714
New contributor
aris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
How do Brits and Americans pronounce pain au chocolat?
pronunciation french foreign-phrases
pronunciation french foreign-phrases
edited Mar 21 at 14:29
L. F.
1054
asked Mar 21 at 4:09
arisaris
15714
New contributor
aris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited Mar 21 at 14:29
L. F.
1054
asked Mar 21 at 4:09
arisaris
15714
New contributor
aris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited Mar 21 at 14:29
L. F.
1054
edited Mar 21 at 14:29
L. F.
1054
edited Mar 21 at 14:29
L. F.
1054
1054
asked Mar 21 at 4:09
arisaris
15714
New contributor
aris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
asked Mar 21 at 4:09
arisaris
15714
asked Mar 21 at 4:09
arisaris
15714
15714
New contributor
aris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
aris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
aris is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
31
There is no English pronunciation that I know of. It's only a French word. So, it should be pronounced as per any French dictionary. (That answers the title of your question.) How English speakers actually do pronounce it depends on how well they speak French . . .
– Jason Bassford
Mar 21 at 6:06
9
Well for example the English pronuncation of croissant is to pronounce the T at the end. The English pronunciation of Paris, France etc. are all different than the French pronunciation. So I don't think that words of French origin in English are always or normally pronounced in the original manner. Even people with French surnames in the US have long anglicized the pronunciation of their names.
– aris
Mar 21 at 6:34
6
@JasonBassford I disagree. In England, "pain" is usually pronounced identically to "pan", rather than nasalized as in French.
– David Richerby
Mar 21 at 10:06
10
As a side note I found that in the US they're commonly called chocolate croissants instead of pan au chocolate
– Amicable
Mar 21 at 10:23
3
@Strawberry dont use 'Chocolatine', it is south-west propaganda.
– aloisdg
Mar 21 at 12:26
|
show 13 more comments
31
There is no English pronunciation that I know of. It's only a French word. So, it should be pronounced as per any French dictionary. (That answers the title of your question.) How English speakers actually do pronounce it depends on how well they speak French . . .
– Jason Bassford
Mar 21 at 6:06
9
Well for example the English pronuncation of croissant is to pronounce the T at the end. The English pronunciation of Paris, France etc. are all different than the French pronunciation. So I don't think that words of French origin in English are always or normally pronounced in the original manner. Even people with French surnames in the US have long anglicized the pronunciation of their names.
– aris
Mar 21 at 6:34
6
@JasonBassford I disagree. In England, "pain" is usually pronounced identically to "pan", rather than nasalized as in French.
– David Richerby
Mar 21 at 10:06
10
As a side note I found that in the US they're commonly called chocolate croissants instead of pan au chocolate
– Amicable
Mar 21 at 10:23
3
@Strawberry dont use 'Chocolatine', it is south-west propaganda.
– aloisdg
Mar 21 at 12:26
31
31
There is no English pronunciation that I know of. It's only a French word. So, it should be pronounced as per any French dictionary. (That answers the title of your question.) How English speakers actually do pronounce it depends on how well they speak French . . .
– Jason Bassford
Mar 21 at 6:06
There is no English pronunciation that I know of. It's only a French word. So, it should be pronounced as per any French dictionary. (That answers the title of your question.) How English speakers actually do pronounce it depends on how well they speak French . . .
– Jason Bassford
Mar 21 at 6:06
9
9
Well for example the English pronuncation of croissant is to pronounce the T at the end. The English pronunciation of Paris, France etc. are all different than the French pronunciation. So I don't think that words of French origin in English are always or normally pronounced in the original manner. Even people with French surnames in the US have long anglicized the pronunciation of their names.
– aris
Mar 21 at 6:34
Well for example the English pronuncation of croissant is to pronounce the T at the end. The English pronunciation of Paris, France etc. are all different than the French pronunciation. So I don't think that words of French origin in English are always or normally pronounced in the original manner. Even people with French surnames in the US have long anglicized the pronunciation of their names.
– aris
Mar 21 at 6:34
6
6
@JasonBassford I disagree. In England, "pain" is usually pronounced identically to "pan", rather than nasalized as in French.
– David Richerby
Mar 21 at 10:06
@JasonBassford I disagree. In England, "pain" is usually pronounced identically to "pan", rather than nasalized as in French.
– David Richerby
Mar 21 at 10:06
10
10
As a side note I found that in the US they're commonly called chocolate croissants instead of pan au chocolate
– Amicable
Mar 21 at 10:23
As a side note I found that in the US they're commonly called chocolate croissants instead of pan au chocolate
– Amicable
Mar 21 at 10:23
3
3
@Strawberry dont use 'Chocolatine', it is south-west propaganda.
– aloisdg
Mar 21 at 12:26
@Strawberry dont use 'Chocolatine', it is south-west propaganda.
– aloisdg
Mar 21 at 12:26
|
show 13 more comments
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
In the UK it depends on the speaker but I would say the most common way is "pan oh sho-coh-la", with the stress on the "la".
With foreign words I use the nearest English sound. I don't try to make foreign sounds when speaking English - I think it's pretentious.
In coffee shops, you sometimes hear pain au chocolat or pain aux raisins pronounced as if the last word is the corresponding English one - especially in one chain which spells the second one "pain au raisin". I think what's happening there is that the staff are mistaking it for the original English word, rather than recognising it as part of the borrowed name of the pastry. They will confirm your order by saying "a panno chocolate".
edited Mar 21 at 20:35
wjandrea
1258
answered Mar 21 at 5:02
MintyMinty
3716
52
It's not 'pretentious' to pronounce foreign words correctly, and can be hard to avoid if you happen to speak the language.
– Michael Harvey
Mar 21 at 7:55
22
@MichaelHarvey But the question is, what is the correct pronunciation of an English word that has been adopted from another language? People who insist on the foreign pronunciation seem to think we are switching to French every time we order a pain au chocolat in a UK coffee shop. I don't see it that way at all. We have adopted the word into English, and that means accommodating it within the English phonemic system. It can be hard to avoid switching phonemic systems when you speak both languages, I agree - but that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do.
– Minty
Mar 21 at 8:13
35
@MichaelHarvey Pronouncing loan words with phonemes that do not exist in English (such as the nasal [ɛ̃] found in French pain, the tones in Chinese kòutóu [kowtow], or the retroflex [ɖ] in Swedish smörgåsbord) will absolutely make many people think you pretentious. Approximating with the nearest available equivalent English phoneme is standard and in no way makes the pronunciation ‘incorrect’.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Mar 21 at 8:55
15
@MichaelHarvey It may not appear pretentious to you (nor to me), but what constitutes 'pretentious' is a culturally variable thing. People who frequent art galleries and people who frequent ladbrokes will likely have very different concepts of what would constitute pretentious behaviour, neither of which are definitive.
– Ynneadwraith
Mar 21 at 10:20
10
I live in Canada, and may be in a unique situation when it comes to French. Many people here are bilingual. Even if they aren't (I certainly am not, although I'm much more familiar with French than people from elsewhere might be), I do still use the French pronunciation, or as close to it as I can. Almost everybody here does that. Anybody pronouncing the words in a way that doesn't at least try to sound French would be considered crass here—and mark them as not being natively Canadian.
– Jason Bassford
Mar 21 at 13:08
|
show 14 more comments
In Britain, I think it's normal to use (at least an approximation of) the French pronunciation.
To address your point about why many more people anglicise "croissant", I think there's a distinction between words adopted from other languages, which often get anglicised, and phrases, which tend not to. Since none of the words in "pain au chocolat" has passed into English individually, it's still a French phrase.
answered Mar 21 at 8:51
Especially LimeEspecially Lime
88947
I think the "Au Bon Pain" chain of restaurants in the US is well known enough that people will generally pronounce those words semi-correctly. (May vary by region) "Chocolat" was a recent movie that won a bunch of awards, so that might also be well known enough.
– Darrel Hoffman
Mar 21 at 13:55
7
We can't pronounce croissant the way the French do. The /kʁw/ at the beginning and the nasal /ɑ̃/ at the end aren't things that occur in English, whereas /pænoʊːʃɔːkəˈlɑː/ is pretty good approximation of the French.
– Peter Shor
Mar 21 at 15:42
add a comment |
French speaker here, living on the US East coast. It varies: they usually try to say it the French way, which is close to "pen" or "pan". I heard once "pain" as in "painful" and it was hilarious.
It should be something like "pen/pan oh shockohlah". Americans like to emphasize the "shock" instead of the "lah".
Americans don't seem to mind or be offended if you try to pronounce it the French way.
edited Mar 21 at 22:08
psmears
13.1k14658
answered Mar 21 at 14:02
NicolasNicolas
1013
New contributor
Nicolas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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2
So the "au" should be pronounced as in "Oh, what a suprise" and not as in "Aw, what a cute puppy."? If so, I've been doing it wrong for years.
– cobaltduck
Mar 21 at 15:28
I have to hear you saying "aw" to know. To be sure you can say "au" like you would say "eau" (water) in french, if that makes it easier.
– Nicolas
Mar 21 at 17:00
Aw as in with paw, saw, maw (mouth), straw, etc. In other words, yes, I have been saying it wrong.
– cobaltduck
Mar 21 at 17:06
1
Haha yeah that kind of "aw" is not great, there is too much emphasize on the "w" which might sound funny in french. The french "o", like the "on" is very difficult for english people. Train with "eau" or saying "oh" (ilke "oh really") with almost no emphasis on the "h" letter. The closest sound I know on an english word is the "o" from "cold".
– Nicolas
Mar 21 at 17:35
3
@Szabolcs That “some reason” is that neither /e/ nor /o/ exists as a monophthong in English. Most people have more trouble pronouncing sounds that don’t exist in their own language.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Mar 21 at 23:11
|
show 7 more comments
As an American expat in the U.K., my experience has been pretty well in line with the other answers here. One interesting addition I might make is that Americans as often as not just won’t try to pronounce French words. Foreign language words that cannot be replaced easily become an Americanized replacement.
If you do encounter an American who makes the effort to properly pronounce this (or any other foreign language word), another American will hear it as either
- incredibly pretentious (if pronounced correctly) or
- comically wrong (if pronounced wrongly)
For my part it took me some time to acclimate to ordering a “pain au chocolat” after I moved to London. I only ever ordered a “chocolate chip pastry” as a child, even when I was visiting Versailles, PA (pronounced Ver-sales) or Des Plaines, IL (pronounced dess planes).
answered Mar 22 at 9:27
Peter VandivierPeter Vandivier
1627
2
It's the same in every language though. If you want to say "computer" in Japanese you don't suddenly switch to the English pronunciation. In fact I think you are obligated to use the Japanese pronunciation. In my experience in all languages, foreign words are pronounced with sounds and accents approximating the language in which you are speaking, unless the intention specifically is to highlight the foreignness of the word or concept.
– aris
2 days ago
@aris Yes, people in general tend not to use sounds that don't exist in their native language. That tendency is certainly not unique to native speakers of English.
– reirab
2 days ago
add a comment |
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4 Answers
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4 Answers
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In the UK it depends on the speaker but I would say the most common way is "pan oh sho-coh-la", with the stress on the "la".
With foreign words I use the nearest English sound. I don't try to make foreign sounds when speaking English - I think it's pretentious.
In coffee shops, you sometimes hear pain au chocolat or pain aux raisins pronounced as if the last word is the corresponding English one - especially in one chain which spells the second one "pain au raisin". I think what's happening there is that the staff are mistaking it for the original English word, rather than recognising it as part of the borrowed name of the pastry. They will confirm your order by saying "a panno chocolate".
edited Mar 21 at 20:35
wjandrea
1258
answered Mar 21 at 5:02
MintyMinty
3716
52
It's not 'pretentious' to pronounce foreign words correctly, and can be hard to avoid if you happen to speak the language.
– Michael Harvey
Mar 21 at 7:55
22
@MichaelHarvey But the question is, what is the correct pronunciation of an English word that has been adopted from another language? People who insist on the foreign pronunciation seem to think we are switching to French every time we order a pain au chocolat in a UK coffee shop. I don't see it that way at all. We have adopted the word into English, and that means accommodating it within the English phonemic system. It can be hard to avoid switching phonemic systems when you speak both languages, I agree - but that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do.
– Minty
Mar 21 at 8:13
35
@MichaelHarvey Pronouncing loan words with phonemes that do not exist in English (such as the nasal [ɛ̃] found in French pain, the tones in Chinese kòutóu [kowtow], or the retroflex [ɖ] in Swedish smörgåsbord) will absolutely make many people think you pretentious. Approximating with the nearest available equivalent English phoneme is standard and in no way makes the pronunciation ‘incorrect’.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Mar 21 at 8:55
15
@MichaelHarvey It may not appear pretentious to you (nor to me), but what constitutes 'pretentious' is a culturally variable thing. People who frequent art galleries and people who frequent ladbrokes will likely have very different concepts of what would constitute pretentious behaviour, neither of which are definitive.
– Ynneadwraith
Mar 21 at 10:20
10
I live in Canada, and may be in a unique situation when it comes to French. Many people here are bilingual. Even if they aren't (I certainly am not, although I'm much more familiar with French than people from elsewhere might be), I do still use the French pronunciation, or as close to it as I can. Almost everybody here does that. Anybody pronouncing the words in a way that doesn't at least try to sound French would be considered crass here—and mark them as not being natively Canadian.
– Jason Bassford
Mar 21 at 13:08
|
show 14 more comments
In the UK it depends on the speaker but I would say the most common way is "pan oh sho-coh-la", with the stress on the "la".
With foreign words I use the nearest English sound. I don't try to make foreign sounds when speaking English - I think it's pretentious.
In coffee shops, you sometimes hear pain au chocolat or pain aux raisins pronounced as if the last word is the corresponding English one - especially in one chain which spells the second one "pain au raisin". I think what's happening there is that the staff are mistaking it for the original English word, rather than recognising it as part of the borrowed name of the pastry. They will confirm your order by saying "a panno chocolate".
edited Mar 21 at 20:35
wjandrea
1258
answered Mar 21 at 5:02
MintyMinty
3716
52
It's not 'pretentious' to pronounce foreign words correctly, and can be hard to avoid if you happen to speak the language.
– Michael Harvey
Mar 21 at 7:55
22
@MichaelHarvey But the question is, what is the correct pronunciation of an English word that has been adopted from another language? People who insist on the foreign pronunciation seem to think we are switching to French every time we order a pain au chocolat in a UK coffee shop. I don't see it that way at all. We have adopted the word into English, and that means accommodating it within the English phonemic system. It can be hard to avoid switching phonemic systems when you speak both languages, I agree - but that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do.
– Minty
Mar 21 at 8:13
35
@MichaelHarvey Pronouncing loan words with phonemes that do not exist in English (such as the nasal [ɛ̃] found in French pain, the tones in Chinese kòutóu [kowtow], or the retroflex [ɖ] in Swedish smörgåsbord) will absolutely make many people think you pretentious. Approximating with the nearest available equivalent English phoneme is standard and in no way makes the pronunciation ‘incorrect’.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Mar 21 at 8:55
15
@MichaelHarvey It may not appear pretentious to you (nor to me), but what constitutes 'pretentious' is a culturally variable thing. People who frequent art galleries and people who frequent ladbrokes will likely have very different concepts of what would constitute pretentious behaviour, neither of which are definitive.
– Ynneadwraith
Mar 21 at 10:20
10
I live in Canada, and may be in a unique situation when it comes to French. Many people here are bilingual. Even if they aren't (I certainly am not, although I'm much more familiar with French than people from elsewhere might be), I do still use the French pronunciation, or as close to it as I can. Almost everybody here does that. Anybody pronouncing the words in a way that doesn't at least try to sound French would be considered crass here—and mark them as not being natively Canadian.
– Jason Bassford
Mar 21 at 13:08
|
show 14 more comments
In the UK it depends on the speaker but I would say the most common way is "pan oh sho-coh-la", with the stress on the "la".
With foreign words I use the nearest English sound. I don't try to make foreign sounds when speaking English - I think it's pretentious.
In coffee shops, you sometimes hear pain au chocolat or pain aux raisins pronounced as if the last word is the corresponding English one - especially in one chain which spells the second one "pain au raisin". I think what's happening there is that the staff are mistaking it for the original English word, rather than recognising it as part of the borrowed name of the pastry. They will confirm your order by saying "a panno chocolate".
edited Mar 21 at 20:35
wjandrea
1258
answered Mar 21 at 5:02
MintyMinty
3716
In the UK it depends on the speaker but I would say the most common way is "pan oh sho-coh-la", with the stress on the "la".
With foreign words I use the nearest English sound. I don't try to make foreign sounds when speaking English - I think it's pretentious.
In coffee shops, you sometimes hear pain au chocolat or pain aux raisins pronounced as if the last word is the corresponding English one - especially in one chain which spells the second one "pain au raisin". I think what's happening there is that the staff are mistaking it for the original English word, rather than recognising it as part of the borrowed name of the pastry. They will confirm your order by saying "a panno chocolate".
edited Mar 21 at 20:35
wjandrea
1258
answered Mar 21 at 5:02
MintyMinty
3716
edited Mar 21 at 20:35
wjandrea
1258
edited Mar 21 at 20:35
wjandrea
1258
edited Mar 21 at 20:35
wjandrea
1258
1258
answered Mar 21 at 5:02
MintyMinty
3716
answered Mar 21 at 5:02
MintyMinty
3716
answered Mar 21 at 5:02
MintyMinty
3716
3716
52
It's not 'pretentious' to pronounce foreign words correctly, and can be hard to avoid if you happen to speak the language.
– Michael Harvey
Mar 21 at 7:55
22
@MichaelHarvey But the question is, what is the correct pronunciation of an English word that has been adopted from another language? People who insist on the foreign pronunciation seem to think we are switching to French every time we order a pain au chocolat in a UK coffee shop. I don't see it that way at all. We have adopted the word into English, and that means accommodating it within the English phonemic system. It can be hard to avoid switching phonemic systems when you speak both languages, I agree - but that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do.
– Minty
Mar 21 at 8:13
35
@MichaelHarvey Pronouncing loan words with phonemes that do not exist in English (such as the nasal [ɛ̃] found in French pain, the tones in Chinese kòutóu [kowtow], or the retroflex [ɖ] in Swedish smörgåsbord) will absolutely make many people think you pretentious. Approximating with the nearest available equivalent English phoneme is standard and in no way makes the pronunciation ‘incorrect’.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Mar 21 at 8:55
15
@MichaelHarvey It may not appear pretentious to you (nor to me), but what constitutes 'pretentious' is a culturally variable thing. People who frequent art galleries and people who frequent ladbrokes will likely have very different concepts of what would constitute pretentious behaviour, neither of which are definitive.
– Ynneadwraith
Mar 21 at 10:20
10
I live in Canada, and may be in a unique situation when it comes to French. Many people here are bilingual. Even if they aren't (I certainly am not, although I'm much more familiar with French than people from elsewhere might be), I do still use the French pronunciation, or as close to it as I can. Almost everybody here does that. Anybody pronouncing the words in a way that doesn't at least try to sound French would be considered crass here—and mark them as not being natively Canadian.
– Jason Bassford
Mar 21 at 13:08
|
show 14 more comments
52
It's not 'pretentious' to pronounce foreign words correctly, and can be hard to avoid if you happen to speak the language.
– Michael Harvey
Mar 21 at 7:55
22
@MichaelHarvey But the question is, what is the correct pronunciation of an English word that has been adopted from another language? People who insist on the foreign pronunciation seem to think we are switching to French every time we order a pain au chocolat in a UK coffee shop. I don't see it that way at all. We have adopted the word into English, and that means accommodating it within the English phonemic system. It can be hard to avoid switching phonemic systems when you speak both languages, I agree - but that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do.
– Minty
Mar 21 at 8:13
35
@MichaelHarvey Pronouncing loan words with phonemes that do not exist in English (such as the nasal [ɛ̃] found in French pain, the tones in Chinese kòutóu [kowtow], or the retroflex [ɖ] in Swedish smörgåsbord) will absolutely make many people think you pretentious. Approximating with the nearest available equivalent English phoneme is standard and in no way makes the pronunciation ‘incorrect’.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Mar 21 at 8:55
15
@MichaelHarvey It may not appear pretentious to you (nor to me), but what constitutes 'pretentious' is a culturally variable thing. People who frequent art galleries and people who frequent ladbrokes will likely have very different concepts of what would constitute pretentious behaviour, neither of which are definitive.
– Ynneadwraith
Mar 21 at 10:20
10
I live in Canada, and may be in a unique situation when it comes to French. Many people here are bilingual. Even if they aren't (I certainly am not, although I'm much more familiar with French than people from elsewhere might be), I do still use the French pronunciation, or as close to it as I can. Almost everybody here does that. Anybody pronouncing the words in a way that doesn't at least try to sound French would be considered crass here—and mark them as not being natively Canadian.
– Jason Bassford
Mar 21 at 13:08
52
52
It's not 'pretentious' to pronounce foreign words correctly, and can be hard to avoid if you happen to speak the language.
– Michael Harvey
Mar 21 at 7:55
It's not 'pretentious' to pronounce foreign words correctly, and can be hard to avoid if you happen to speak the language.
– Michael Harvey
Mar 21 at 7:55
22
22
@MichaelHarvey But the question is, what is the correct pronunciation of an English word that has been adopted from another language? People who insist on the foreign pronunciation seem to think we are switching to French every time we order a pain au chocolat in a UK coffee shop. I don't see it that way at all. We have adopted the word into English, and that means accommodating it within the English phonemic system. It can be hard to avoid switching phonemic systems when you speak both languages, I agree - but that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do.
– Minty
Mar 21 at 8:13
@MichaelHarvey But the question is, what is the correct pronunciation of an English word that has been adopted from another language? People who insist on the foreign pronunciation seem to think we are switching to French every time we order a pain au chocolat in a UK coffee shop. I don't see it that way at all. We have adopted the word into English, and that means accommodating it within the English phonemic system. It can be hard to avoid switching phonemic systems when you speak both languages, I agree - but that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do.
– Minty
Mar 21 at 8:13
35
35
@MichaelHarvey Pronouncing loan words with phonemes that do not exist in English (such as the nasal [ɛ̃] found in French pain, the tones in Chinese kòutóu [kowtow], or the retroflex [ɖ] in Swedish smörgåsbord) will absolutely make many people think you pretentious. Approximating with the nearest available equivalent English phoneme is standard and in no way makes the pronunciation ‘incorrect’.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Mar 21 at 8:55
@MichaelHarvey Pronouncing loan words with phonemes that do not exist in English (such as the nasal [ɛ̃] found in French pain, the tones in Chinese kòutóu [kowtow], or the retroflex [ɖ] in Swedish smörgåsbord) will absolutely make many people think you pretentious. Approximating with the nearest available equivalent English phoneme is standard and in no way makes the pronunciation ‘incorrect’.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Mar 21 at 8:55
15
15
@MichaelHarvey It may not appear pretentious to you (nor to me), but what constitutes 'pretentious' is a culturally variable thing. People who frequent art galleries and people who frequent ladbrokes will likely have very different concepts of what would constitute pretentious behaviour, neither of which are definitive.
– Ynneadwraith
Mar 21 at 10:20
@MichaelHarvey It may not appear pretentious to you (nor to me), but what constitutes 'pretentious' is a culturally variable thing. People who frequent art galleries and people who frequent ladbrokes will likely have very different concepts of what would constitute pretentious behaviour, neither of which are definitive.
– Ynneadwraith
Mar 21 at 10:20
10
10
I live in Canada, and may be in a unique situation when it comes to French. Many people here are bilingual. Even if they aren't (I certainly am not, although I'm much more familiar with French than people from elsewhere might be), I do still use the French pronunciation, or as close to it as I can. Almost everybody here does that. Anybody pronouncing the words in a way that doesn't at least try to sound French would be considered crass here—and mark them as not being natively Canadian.
– Jason Bassford
Mar 21 at 13:08
I live in Canada, and may be in a unique situation when it comes to French. Many people here are bilingual. Even if they aren't (I certainly am not, although I'm much more familiar with French than people from elsewhere might be), I do still use the French pronunciation, or as close to it as I can. Almost everybody here does that. Anybody pronouncing the words in a way that doesn't at least try to sound French would be considered crass here—and mark them as not being natively Canadian.
– Jason Bassford
Mar 21 at 13:08
|
show 14 more comments
In Britain, I think it's normal to use (at least an approximation of) the French pronunciation.
To address your point about why many more people anglicise "croissant", I think there's a distinction between words adopted from other languages, which often get anglicised, and phrases, which tend not to. Since none of the words in "pain au chocolat" has passed into English individually, it's still a French phrase.
answered Mar 21 at 8:51
Especially LimeEspecially Lime
88947
I think the "Au Bon Pain" chain of restaurants in the US is well known enough that people will generally pronounce those words semi-correctly. (May vary by region) "Chocolat" was a recent movie that won a bunch of awards, so that might also be well known enough.
– Darrel Hoffman
Mar 21 at 13:55
7
We can't pronounce croissant the way the French do. The /kʁw/ at the beginning and the nasal /ɑ̃/ at the end aren't things that occur in English, whereas /pænoʊːʃɔːkəˈlɑː/ is pretty good approximation of the French.
– Peter Shor
Mar 21 at 15:42
add a comment |
In Britain, I think it's normal to use (at least an approximation of) the French pronunciation.
To address your point about why many more people anglicise "croissant", I think there's a distinction between words adopted from other languages, which often get anglicised, and phrases, which tend not to. Since none of the words in "pain au chocolat" has passed into English individually, it's still a French phrase.
answered Mar 21 at 8:51
Especially LimeEspecially Lime
88947
I think the "Au Bon Pain" chain of restaurants in the US is well known enough that people will generally pronounce those words semi-correctly. (May vary by region) "Chocolat" was a recent movie that won a bunch of awards, so that might also be well known enough.
– Darrel Hoffman
Mar 21 at 13:55
7
We can't pronounce croissant the way the French do. The /kʁw/ at the beginning and the nasal /ɑ̃/ at the end aren't things that occur in English, whereas /pænoʊːʃɔːkəˈlɑː/ is pretty good approximation of the French.
– Peter Shor
Mar 21 at 15:42
add a comment |
In Britain, I think it's normal to use (at least an approximation of) the French pronunciation.
To address your point about why many more people anglicise "croissant", I think there's a distinction between words adopted from other languages, which often get anglicised, and phrases, which tend not to. Since none of the words in "pain au chocolat" has passed into English individually, it's still a French phrase.
answered Mar 21 at 8:51
Especially LimeEspecially Lime
88947
In Britain, I think it's normal to use (at least an approximation of) the French pronunciation.
To address your point about why many more people anglicise "croissant", I think there's a distinction between words adopted from other languages, which often get anglicised, and phrases, which tend not to. Since none of the words in "pain au chocolat" has passed into English individually, it's still a French phrase.
answered Mar 21 at 8:51
Especially LimeEspecially Lime
88947
answered Mar 21 at 8:51
Especially LimeEspecially Lime
88947
answered Mar 21 at 8:51
Especially LimeEspecially Lime
88947
answered Mar 21 at 8:51
Especially LimeEspecially Lime
88947
88947
I think the "Au Bon Pain" chain of restaurants in the US is well known enough that people will generally pronounce those words semi-correctly. (May vary by region) "Chocolat" was a recent movie that won a bunch of awards, so that might also be well known enough.
– Darrel Hoffman
Mar 21 at 13:55
7
We can't pronounce croissant the way the French do. The /kʁw/ at the beginning and the nasal /ɑ̃/ at the end aren't things that occur in English, whereas /pænoʊːʃɔːkəˈlɑː/ is pretty good approximation of the French.
– Peter Shor
Mar 21 at 15:42
add a comment |
I think the "Au Bon Pain" chain of restaurants in the US is well known enough that people will generally pronounce those words semi-correctly. (May vary by region) "Chocolat" was a recent movie that won a bunch of awards, so that might also be well known enough.
– Darrel Hoffman
Mar 21 at 13:55
7
We can't pronounce croissant the way the French do. The /kʁw/ at the beginning and the nasal /ɑ̃/ at the end aren't things that occur in English, whereas /pænoʊːʃɔːkəˈlɑː/ is pretty good approximation of the French.
– Peter Shor
Mar 21 at 15:42
I think the "Au Bon Pain" chain of restaurants in the US is well known enough that people will generally pronounce those words semi-correctly. (May vary by region) "Chocolat" was a recent movie that won a bunch of awards, so that might also be well known enough.
– Darrel Hoffman
Mar 21 at 13:55
I think the "Au Bon Pain" chain of restaurants in the US is well known enough that people will generally pronounce those words semi-correctly. (May vary by region) "Chocolat" was a recent movie that won a bunch of awards, so that might also be well known enough.
– Darrel Hoffman
Mar 21 at 13:55
7
7
We can't pronounce croissant the way the French do. The /kʁw/ at the beginning and the nasal /ɑ̃/ at the end aren't things that occur in English, whereas /pænoʊːʃɔːkəˈlɑː/ is pretty good approximation of the French.
– Peter Shor
Mar 21 at 15:42
We can't pronounce croissant the way the French do. The /kʁw/ at the beginning and the nasal /ɑ̃/ at the end aren't things that occur in English, whereas /pænoʊːʃɔːkəˈlɑː/ is pretty good approximation of the French.
– Peter Shor
Mar 21 at 15:42
add a comment |
French speaker here, living on the US East coast. It varies: they usually try to say it the French way, which is close to "pen" or "pan". I heard once "pain" as in "painful" and it was hilarious.
It should be something like "pen/pan oh shockohlah". Americans like to emphasize the "shock" instead of the "lah".
Americans don't seem to mind or be offended if you try to pronounce it the French way.
edited Mar 21 at 22:08
psmears
13.1k14658
answered Mar 21 at 14:02
NicolasNicolas
1013
New contributor
Nicolas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
So the "au" should be pronounced as in "Oh, what a suprise" and not as in "Aw, what a cute puppy."? If so, I've been doing it wrong for years.
– cobaltduck
Mar 21 at 15:28
I have to hear you saying "aw" to know. To be sure you can say "au" like you would say "eau" (water) in french, if that makes it easier.
– Nicolas
Mar 21 at 17:00
Aw as in with paw, saw, maw (mouth), straw, etc. In other words, yes, I have been saying it wrong.
– cobaltduck
Mar 21 at 17:06
1
Haha yeah that kind of "aw" is not great, there is too much emphasize on the "w" which might sound funny in french. The french "o", like the "on" is very difficult for english people. Train with "eau" or saying "oh" (ilke "oh really") with almost no emphasis on the "h" letter. The closest sound I know on an english word is the "o" from "cold".
– Nicolas
Mar 21 at 17:35
3
@Szabolcs That “some reason” is that neither /e/ nor /o/ exists as a monophthong in English. Most people have more trouble pronouncing sounds that don’t exist in their own language.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Mar 21 at 23:11
|
show 7 more comments
French speaker here, living on the US East coast. It varies: they usually try to say it the French way, which is close to "pen" or "pan". I heard once "pain" as in "painful" and it was hilarious.
It should be something like "pen/pan oh shockohlah". Americans like to emphasize the "shock" instead of the "lah".
Americans don't seem to mind or be offended if you try to pronounce it the French way.
edited Mar 21 at 22:08
psmears
13.1k14658
answered Mar 21 at 14:02
NicolasNicolas
1013
New contributor
Nicolas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
So the "au" should be pronounced as in "Oh, what a suprise" and not as in "Aw, what a cute puppy."? If so, I've been doing it wrong for years.
– cobaltduck
Mar 21 at 15:28
I have to hear you saying "aw" to know. To be sure you can say "au" like you would say "eau" (water) in french, if that makes it easier.
– Nicolas
Mar 21 at 17:00
Aw as in with paw, saw, maw (mouth), straw, etc. In other words, yes, I have been saying it wrong.
– cobaltduck
Mar 21 at 17:06
1
Haha yeah that kind of "aw" is not great, there is too much emphasize on the "w" which might sound funny in french. The french "o", like the "on" is very difficult for english people. Train with "eau" or saying "oh" (ilke "oh really") with almost no emphasis on the "h" letter. The closest sound I know on an english word is the "o" from "cold".
– Nicolas
Mar 21 at 17:35
3
@Szabolcs That “some reason” is that neither /e/ nor /o/ exists as a monophthong in English. Most people have more trouble pronouncing sounds that don’t exist in their own language.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Mar 21 at 23:11
|
show 7 more comments
French speaker here, living on the US East coast. It varies: they usually try to say it the French way, which is close to "pen" or "pan". I heard once "pain" as in "painful" and it was hilarious.
It should be something like "pen/pan oh shockohlah". Americans like to emphasize the "shock" instead of the "lah".
Americans don't seem to mind or be offended if you try to pronounce it the French way.
edited Mar 21 at 22:08
psmears
13.1k14658
answered Mar 21 at 14:02
NicolasNicolas
1013
New contributor
Nicolas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
French speaker here, living on the US East coast. It varies: they usually try to say it the French way, which is close to "pen" or "pan". I heard once "pain" as in "painful" and it was hilarious.
It should be something like "pen/pan oh shockohlah". Americans like to emphasize the "shock" instead of the "lah".
Americans don't seem to mind or be offended if you try to pronounce it the French way.
edited Mar 21 at 22:08
psmears
13.1k14658
answered Mar 21 at 14:02
NicolasNicolas
1013
New contributor
Nicolas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
edited Mar 21 at 22:08
psmears
13.1k14658
edited Mar 21 at 22:08
psmears
13.1k14658
edited Mar 21 at 22:08
psmears
13.1k14658
13.1k14658
answered Mar 21 at 14:02
NicolasNicolas
1013
New contributor
Nicolas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
answered Mar 21 at 14:02
NicolasNicolas
1013
answered Mar 21 at 14:02
NicolasNicolas
1013
1013
New contributor
Nicolas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
New contributor
Nicolas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
Nicolas is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.
2
So the "au" should be pronounced as in "Oh, what a suprise" and not as in "Aw, what a cute puppy."? If so, I've been doing it wrong for years.
– cobaltduck
Mar 21 at 15:28
I have to hear you saying "aw" to know. To be sure you can say "au" like you would say "eau" (water) in french, if that makes it easier.
– Nicolas
Mar 21 at 17:00
Aw as in with paw, saw, maw (mouth), straw, etc. In other words, yes, I have been saying it wrong.
– cobaltduck
Mar 21 at 17:06
1
Haha yeah that kind of "aw" is not great, there is too much emphasize on the "w" which might sound funny in french. The french "o", like the "on" is very difficult for english people. Train with "eau" or saying "oh" (ilke "oh really") with almost no emphasis on the "h" letter. The closest sound I know on an english word is the "o" from "cold".
– Nicolas
Mar 21 at 17:35
3
@Szabolcs That “some reason” is that neither /e/ nor /o/ exists as a monophthong in English. Most people have more trouble pronouncing sounds that don’t exist in their own language.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Mar 21 at 23:11
|
show 7 more comments
2
So the "au" should be pronounced as in "Oh, what a suprise" and not as in "Aw, what a cute puppy."? If so, I've been doing it wrong for years.
– cobaltduck
Mar 21 at 15:28
I have to hear you saying "aw" to know. To be sure you can say "au" like you would say "eau" (water) in french, if that makes it easier.
– Nicolas
Mar 21 at 17:00
Aw as in with paw, saw, maw (mouth), straw, etc. In other words, yes, I have been saying it wrong.
– cobaltduck
Mar 21 at 17:06
1
Haha yeah that kind of "aw" is not great, there is too much emphasize on the "w" which might sound funny in french. The french "o", like the "on" is very difficult for english people. Train with "eau" or saying "oh" (ilke "oh really") with almost no emphasis on the "h" letter. The closest sound I know on an english word is the "o" from "cold".
– Nicolas
Mar 21 at 17:35
3
@Szabolcs That “some reason” is that neither /e/ nor /o/ exists as a monophthong in English. Most people have more trouble pronouncing sounds that don’t exist in their own language.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Mar 21 at 23:11
2
2
So the "au" should be pronounced as in "Oh, what a suprise" and not as in "Aw, what a cute puppy."? If so, I've been doing it wrong for years.
– cobaltduck
Mar 21 at 15:28
So the "au" should be pronounced as in "Oh, what a suprise" and not as in "Aw, what a cute puppy."? If so, I've been doing it wrong for years.
– cobaltduck
Mar 21 at 15:28
I have to hear you saying "aw" to know. To be sure you can say "au" like you would say "eau" (water) in french, if that makes it easier.
– Nicolas
Mar 21 at 17:00
I have to hear you saying "aw" to know. To be sure you can say "au" like you would say "eau" (water) in french, if that makes it easier.
– Nicolas
Mar 21 at 17:00
Aw as in with paw, saw, maw (mouth), straw, etc. In other words, yes, I have been saying it wrong.
– cobaltduck
Mar 21 at 17:06
Aw as in with paw, saw, maw (mouth), straw, etc. In other words, yes, I have been saying it wrong.
– cobaltduck
Mar 21 at 17:06
1
1
Haha yeah that kind of "aw" is not great, there is too much emphasize on the "w" which might sound funny in french. The french "o", like the "on" is very difficult for english people. Train with "eau" or saying "oh" (ilke "oh really") with almost no emphasis on the "h" letter. The closest sound I know on an english word is the "o" from "cold".
– Nicolas
Mar 21 at 17:35
Haha yeah that kind of "aw" is not great, there is too much emphasize on the "w" which might sound funny in french. The french "o", like the "on" is very difficult for english people. Train with "eau" or saying "oh" (ilke "oh really") with almost no emphasis on the "h" letter. The closest sound I know on an english word is the "o" from "cold".
– Nicolas
Mar 21 at 17:35
3
3
@Szabolcs That “some reason” is that neither /e/ nor /o/ exists as a monophthong in English. Most people have more trouble pronouncing sounds that don’t exist in their own language.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Mar 21 at 23:11
@Szabolcs That “some reason” is that neither /e/ nor /o/ exists as a monophthong in English. Most people have more trouble pronouncing sounds that don’t exist in their own language.
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Mar 21 at 23:11
|
show 7 more comments
As an American expat in the U.K., my experience has been pretty well in line with the other answers here. One interesting addition I might make is that Americans as often as not just won’t try to pronounce French words. Foreign language words that cannot be replaced easily become an Americanized replacement.
If you do encounter an American who makes the effort to properly pronounce this (or any other foreign language word), another American will hear it as either
- incredibly pretentious (if pronounced correctly) or
- comically wrong (if pronounced wrongly)
For my part it took me some time to acclimate to ordering a “pain au chocolat” after I moved to London. I only ever ordered a “chocolate chip pastry” as a child, even when I was visiting Versailles, PA (pronounced Ver-sales) or Des Plaines, IL (pronounced dess planes).
answered Mar 22 at 9:27
Peter VandivierPeter Vandivier
1627
2
It's the same in every language though. If you want to say "computer" in Japanese you don't suddenly switch to the English pronunciation. In fact I think you are obligated to use the Japanese pronunciation. In my experience in all languages, foreign words are pronounced with sounds and accents approximating the language in which you are speaking, unless the intention specifically is to highlight the foreignness of the word or concept.
– aris
2 days ago
@aris Yes, people in general tend not to use sounds that don't exist in their native language. That tendency is certainly not unique to native speakers of English.
– reirab
2 days ago
add a comment |
As an American expat in the U.K., my experience has been pretty well in line with the other answers here. One interesting addition I might make is that Americans as often as not just won’t try to pronounce French words. Foreign language words that cannot be replaced easily become an Americanized replacement.
If you do encounter an American who makes the effort to properly pronounce this (or any other foreign language word), another American will hear it as either
- incredibly pretentious (if pronounced correctly) or
- comically wrong (if pronounced wrongly)
For my part it took me some time to acclimate to ordering a “pain au chocolat” after I moved to London. I only ever ordered a “chocolate chip pastry” as a child, even when I was visiting Versailles, PA (pronounced Ver-sales) or Des Plaines, IL (pronounced dess planes).
answered Mar 22 at 9:27
Peter VandivierPeter Vandivier
1627
2
It's the same in every language though. If you want to say "computer" in Japanese you don't suddenly switch to the English pronunciation. In fact I think you are obligated to use the Japanese pronunciation. In my experience in all languages, foreign words are pronounced with sounds and accents approximating the language in which you are speaking, unless the intention specifically is to highlight the foreignness of the word or concept.
– aris
2 days ago
@aris Yes, people in general tend not to use sounds that don't exist in their native language. That tendency is certainly not unique to native speakers of English.
– reirab
2 days ago
add a comment |
As an American expat in the U.K., my experience has been pretty well in line with the other answers here. One interesting addition I might make is that Americans as often as not just won’t try to pronounce French words. Foreign language words that cannot be replaced easily become an Americanized replacement.
If you do encounter an American who makes the effort to properly pronounce this (or any other foreign language word), another American will hear it as either
- incredibly pretentious (if pronounced correctly) or
- comically wrong (if pronounced wrongly)
For my part it took me some time to acclimate to ordering a “pain au chocolat” after I moved to London. I only ever ordered a “chocolate chip pastry” as a child, even when I was visiting Versailles, PA (pronounced Ver-sales) or Des Plaines, IL (pronounced dess planes).
answered Mar 22 at 9:27
Peter VandivierPeter Vandivier
1627
As an American expat in the U.K., my experience has been pretty well in line with the other answers here. One interesting addition I might make is that Americans as often as not just won’t try to pronounce French words. Foreign language words that cannot be replaced easily become an Americanized replacement.
If you do encounter an American who makes the effort to properly pronounce this (or any other foreign language word), another American will hear it as either
- incredibly pretentious (if pronounced correctly) or
- comically wrong (if pronounced wrongly)
For my part it took me some time to acclimate to ordering a “pain au chocolat” after I moved to London. I only ever ordered a “chocolate chip pastry” as a child, even when I was visiting Versailles, PA (pronounced Ver-sales) or Des Plaines, IL (pronounced dess planes).
answered Mar 22 at 9:27
Peter VandivierPeter Vandivier
1627
edited Mar 22 at 9:32
answered Mar 22 at 9:27
Peter VandivierPeter Vandivier
1627
answered Mar 22 at 9:27
Peter VandivierPeter Vandivier
1627
answered Mar 22 at 9:27
Peter VandivierPeter Vandivier
1627
1627
2
It's the same in every language though. If you want to say "computer" in Japanese you don't suddenly switch to the English pronunciation. In fact I think you are obligated to use the Japanese pronunciation. In my experience in all languages, foreign words are pronounced with sounds and accents approximating the language in which you are speaking, unless the intention specifically is to highlight the foreignness of the word or concept.
– aris
2 days ago
@aris Yes, people in general tend not to use sounds that don't exist in their native language. That tendency is certainly not unique to native speakers of English.
– reirab
2 days ago
add a comment |
2
It's the same in every language though. If you want to say "computer" in Japanese you don't suddenly switch to the English pronunciation. In fact I think you are obligated to use the Japanese pronunciation. In my experience in all languages, foreign words are pronounced with sounds and accents approximating the language in which you are speaking, unless the intention specifically is to highlight the foreignness of the word or concept.
– aris
2 days ago
@aris Yes, people in general tend not to use sounds that don't exist in their native language. That tendency is certainly not unique to native speakers of English.
– reirab
2 days ago
2
2
It's the same in every language though. If you want to say "computer" in Japanese you don't suddenly switch to the English pronunciation. In fact I think you are obligated to use the Japanese pronunciation. In my experience in all languages, foreign words are pronounced with sounds and accents approximating the language in which you are speaking, unless the intention specifically is to highlight the foreignness of the word or concept.
– aris
2 days ago
It's the same in every language though. If you want to say "computer" in Japanese you don't suddenly switch to the English pronunciation. In fact I think you are obligated to use the Japanese pronunciation. In my experience in all languages, foreign words are pronounced with sounds and accents approximating the language in which you are speaking, unless the intention specifically is to highlight the foreignness of the word or concept.
– aris
2 days ago
@aris Yes, people in general tend not to use sounds that don't exist in their native language. That tendency is certainly not unique to native speakers of English.
– reirab
2 days ago
@aris Yes, people in general tend not to use sounds that don't exist in their native language. That tendency is certainly not unique to native speakers of English.
– reirab
2 days ago
add a comment |
aris is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
aris is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
aris is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
aris is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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There is no English pronunciation that I know of. It's only a French word. So, it should be pronounced as per any French dictionary. (That answers the title of your question.) How English speakers actually do pronounce it depends on how well they speak French . . .
– Jason Bassford
Mar 21 at 6:06
9
Well for example the English pronuncation of croissant is to pronounce the T at the end. The English pronunciation of Paris, France etc. are all different than the French pronunciation. So I don't think that words of French origin in English are always or normally pronounced in the original manner. Even people with French surnames in the US have long anglicized the pronunciation of their names.
– aris
Mar 21 at 6:34
6
@JasonBassford I disagree. In England, "pain" is usually pronounced identically to "pan", rather than nasalized as in French.
– David Richerby
Mar 21 at 10:06
10
As a side note I found that in the US they're commonly called chocolate croissants instead of pan au chocolate
– Amicable
Mar 21 at 10:23
3
@Strawberry dont use 'Chocolatine', it is south-west propaganda.
– aloisdg
Mar 21 at 12:26