Why did it take so long to abandon sail after steamships were demonstrated?












36
















  • 1807, Robert Fulton's Clermont the first ship to demonstrate the feasibility of steam propulsion for commercial use, but it also carried sail.


  • 1819, The first steamship to cross the Atlantic was the American City of Savannah, but it also carried sail.


  • 1837, Britain's steam-powered Great Western established regular transatlantic passenger service, but it also carried sail.


  • 1838, SS Archimedes was the first steamship to be driven by a screw propeller, but it also carried sail.


  • 1871, The first British Navy ship not to carry masts or expensive sails the H.M.S. Devastation..


  • Commercial steam ships regularly carried masts and auxiliary sails into the 20th century (1900s).




Question:

IF steam power was superior to sail, Why did it take so long to abandon sail after steamships were demonstrated?.











share|improve this question




















  • 22





    Infrastructure? Steam is not useful without coaling stations. Replacement capital cost? Ships were expensive, and it probably didn't make sense to just discard a major capital expense before you were ready to replace it.

    – Mark C. Wallace
    Mar 14 at 16:51






  • 9





    Most of the reasons are discussed in Historic England's Ships and Boats: 1840-1950

    – sempaiscuba
    Mar 14 at 16:56






  • 3





    @JMS presumably the RN wasn't so stupid as to just convert to oil just because it was new and whiz-bang. It's guaranteed that they worked out the logistics of refueling those ships before sending them in mass quantities into the fleet.

    – RonJohn
    Mar 15 at 1:30






  • 3





    The logistics problem is significantly more problematic for navy ships than for commercial ships. Navy ships get sent to places where there are unfriendly people (that's pretty much the whole point of sending them); those unfriendly people may already control the coaling station, or if not, they may attempt to control it. Commercial ships get sent places where the only question is "can you pay?"

    – Martin Bonner
    Mar 15 at 14:25






  • 8





    We invented computers about 70 years ago. Why do we still use paper for some things?

    – J...
    Mar 15 at 16:43
















36
















  • 1807, Robert Fulton's Clermont the first ship to demonstrate the feasibility of steam propulsion for commercial use, but it also carried sail.


  • 1819, The first steamship to cross the Atlantic was the American City of Savannah, but it also carried sail.


  • 1837, Britain's steam-powered Great Western established regular transatlantic passenger service, but it also carried sail.


  • 1838, SS Archimedes was the first steamship to be driven by a screw propeller, but it also carried sail.


  • 1871, The first British Navy ship not to carry masts or expensive sails the H.M.S. Devastation..


  • Commercial steam ships regularly carried masts and auxiliary sails into the 20th century (1900s).




Question:

IF steam power was superior to sail, Why did it take so long to abandon sail after steamships were demonstrated?.











share|improve this question




















  • 22





    Infrastructure? Steam is not useful without coaling stations. Replacement capital cost? Ships were expensive, and it probably didn't make sense to just discard a major capital expense before you were ready to replace it.

    – Mark C. Wallace
    Mar 14 at 16:51






  • 9





    Most of the reasons are discussed in Historic England's Ships and Boats: 1840-1950

    – sempaiscuba
    Mar 14 at 16:56






  • 3





    @JMS presumably the RN wasn't so stupid as to just convert to oil just because it was new and whiz-bang. It's guaranteed that they worked out the logistics of refueling those ships before sending them in mass quantities into the fleet.

    – RonJohn
    Mar 15 at 1:30






  • 3





    The logistics problem is significantly more problematic for navy ships than for commercial ships. Navy ships get sent to places where there are unfriendly people (that's pretty much the whole point of sending them); those unfriendly people may already control the coaling station, or if not, they may attempt to control it. Commercial ships get sent places where the only question is "can you pay?"

    – Martin Bonner
    Mar 15 at 14:25






  • 8





    We invented computers about 70 years ago. Why do we still use paper for some things?

    – J...
    Mar 15 at 16:43














36












36








36


3







  • 1807, Robert Fulton's Clermont the first ship to demonstrate the feasibility of steam propulsion for commercial use, but it also carried sail.


  • 1819, The first steamship to cross the Atlantic was the American City of Savannah, but it also carried sail.


  • 1837, Britain's steam-powered Great Western established regular transatlantic passenger service, but it also carried sail.


  • 1838, SS Archimedes was the first steamship to be driven by a screw propeller, but it also carried sail.


  • 1871, The first British Navy ship not to carry masts or expensive sails the H.M.S. Devastation..


  • Commercial steam ships regularly carried masts and auxiliary sails into the 20th century (1900s).




Question:

IF steam power was superior to sail, Why did it take so long to abandon sail after steamships were demonstrated?.











share|improve this question

















  • 1807, Robert Fulton's Clermont the first ship to demonstrate the feasibility of steam propulsion for commercial use, but it also carried sail.


  • 1819, The first steamship to cross the Atlantic was the American City of Savannah, but it also carried sail.


  • 1837, Britain's steam-powered Great Western established regular transatlantic passenger service, but it also carried sail.


  • 1838, SS Archimedes was the first steamship to be driven by a screw propeller, but it also carried sail.


  • 1871, The first British Navy ship not to carry masts or expensive sails the H.M.S. Devastation..


  • Commercial steam ships regularly carried masts and auxiliary sails into the 20th century (1900s).




Question:

IF steam power was superior to sail, Why did it take so long to abandon sail after steamships were demonstrated?.








military age-of-sail steamboat commercial






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Mar 14 at 16:52







JMS

















asked Mar 14 at 16:36









JMSJMS

14.8k342114




14.8k342114








  • 22





    Infrastructure? Steam is not useful without coaling stations. Replacement capital cost? Ships were expensive, and it probably didn't make sense to just discard a major capital expense before you were ready to replace it.

    – Mark C. Wallace
    Mar 14 at 16:51






  • 9





    Most of the reasons are discussed in Historic England's Ships and Boats: 1840-1950

    – sempaiscuba
    Mar 14 at 16:56






  • 3





    @JMS presumably the RN wasn't so stupid as to just convert to oil just because it was new and whiz-bang. It's guaranteed that they worked out the logistics of refueling those ships before sending them in mass quantities into the fleet.

    – RonJohn
    Mar 15 at 1:30






  • 3





    The logistics problem is significantly more problematic for navy ships than for commercial ships. Navy ships get sent to places where there are unfriendly people (that's pretty much the whole point of sending them); those unfriendly people may already control the coaling station, or if not, they may attempt to control it. Commercial ships get sent places where the only question is "can you pay?"

    – Martin Bonner
    Mar 15 at 14:25






  • 8





    We invented computers about 70 years ago. Why do we still use paper for some things?

    – J...
    Mar 15 at 16:43














  • 22





    Infrastructure? Steam is not useful without coaling stations. Replacement capital cost? Ships were expensive, and it probably didn't make sense to just discard a major capital expense before you were ready to replace it.

    – Mark C. Wallace
    Mar 14 at 16:51






  • 9





    Most of the reasons are discussed in Historic England's Ships and Boats: 1840-1950

    – sempaiscuba
    Mar 14 at 16:56






  • 3





    @JMS presumably the RN wasn't so stupid as to just convert to oil just because it was new and whiz-bang. It's guaranteed that they worked out the logistics of refueling those ships before sending them in mass quantities into the fleet.

    – RonJohn
    Mar 15 at 1:30






  • 3





    The logistics problem is significantly more problematic for navy ships than for commercial ships. Navy ships get sent to places where there are unfriendly people (that's pretty much the whole point of sending them); those unfriendly people may already control the coaling station, or if not, they may attempt to control it. Commercial ships get sent places where the only question is "can you pay?"

    – Martin Bonner
    Mar 15 at 14:25






  • 8





    We invented computers about 70 years ago. Why do we still use paper for some things?

    – J...
    Mar 15 at 16:43








22




22





Infrastructure? Steam is not useful without coaling stations. Replacement capital cost? Ships were expensive, and it probably didn't make sense to just discard a major capital expense before you were ready to replace it.

– Mark C. Wallace
Mar 14 at 16:51





Infrastructure? Steam is not useful without coaling stations. Replacement capital cost? Ships were expensive, and it probably didn't make sense to just discard a major capital expense before you were ready to replace it.

– Mark C. Wallace
Mar 14 at 16:51




9




9





Most of the reasons are discussed in Historic England's Ships and Boats: 1840-1950

– sempaiscuba
Mar 14 at 16:56





Most of the reasons are discussed in Historic England's Ships and Boats: 1840-1950

– sempaiscuba
Mar 14 at 16:56




3




3





@JMS presumably the RN wasn't so stupid as to just convert to oil just because it was new and whiz-bang. It's guaranteed that they worked out the logistics of refueling those ships before sending them in mass quantities into the fleet.

– RonJohn
Mar 15 at 1:30





@JMS presumably the RN wasn't so stupid as to just convert to oil just because it was new and whiz-bang. It's guaranteed that they worked out the logistics of refueling those ships before sending them in mass quantities into the fleet.

– RonJohn
Mar 15 at 1:30




3




3





The logistics problem is significantly more problematic for navy ships than for commercial ships. Navy ships get sent to places where there are unfriendly people (that's pretty much the whole point of sending them); those unfriendly people may already control the coaling station, or if not, they may attempt to control it. Commercial ships get sent places where the only question is "can you pay?"

– Martin Bonner
Mar 15 at 14:25





The logistics problem is significantly more problematic for navy ships than for commercial ships. Navy ships get sent to places where there are unfriendly people (that's pretty much the whole point of sending them); those unfriendly people may already control the coaling station, or if not, they may attempt to control it. Commercial ships get sent places where the only question is "can you pay?"

– Martin Bonner
Mar 15 at 14:25




8




8





We invented computers about 70 years ago. Why do we still use paper for some things?

– J...
Mar 15 at 16:43





We invented computers about 70 years ago. Why do we still use paper for some things?

– J...
Mar 15 at 16:43










10 Answers
10






active

oldest

votes


















65














I think it comes down to a few basic factors:




  1. Early steam engines weren't very efficient or reliable. So it made sense to retain sails as a backup should the steam engine(s) breakdown or should the ship run out of fuel (especially on longer oceanic voyages were replenishment was uncertain).


  2. Wind-power is essentially free (once you've invested in the masts & sails in the first place), whereas you had to keep buying coal. As the steam engines were inefficient it made sense to have sails to supplement steam. This could be in the form of using them both together to add a few knots to the ship's speed or using one or the other as circumstances demanded (i.e. steam into the wind, sail down wind).


  3. Sailors are a superstitious and conservative folk, they knew sails and sailing, and it took some time to wean them off.


  4. The transition was dependent on a number of later technological changes, such as improvements in boiler design (to improve power, reliability and efficiency), the introduction of iron hulls and the introduction of the screw propeller, to make steam power capable of replacing sail.




Steam was introduced into naval service when it could improve an existing system, or provide a new method of carrying out essential business. It did not revolutionise the conduct of operations at sea overnight. Early steam engines were expensive, heavy, uneconomic and ill balanced. They were far from ideal power plants for wooden ships.



...



The 1840s witnessed a number of vital technological developments, of which the screw and the iron ship were the most obvious. Equally important breakthroughs in iron production, boiler design, bearings, lubricants, manufacturing and control systems were essential to the development of modern warships. Many of these technologies were drawn from other engineering sectors. By 1850 steam ships were effective and reliable enough to be used globally, while fuel supplies. engineering back-up and vital docking accommodation were spreading to meet the need. Although a few key commercial routes already carried steam shipping, this was a luxury market, catering for passengers and mail, not bulk produce.





[For a warship] it made sense to fit a square rig so the ship could cruise under sail, saving the coal for tactical demands, and emergencies.



The Sail and Steam Navy List, R. Winfield (2004), pg.17







share|improve this answer





















  • 13





    Re #2, that's why Skysails en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkySails is selling kite/sails to assist motor-powered ships. Fuel costs.

    – jamesqf
    Mar 14 at 17:50






  • 4





    I would add that hulls also had to be redesigned to leverage steam power properly, thereby increasing the efficiency of the steam power, and this also took a few design generations.

    – Pieter Geerkens
    Mar 14 at 19:04











  • And, you had to carry the fuel (coal), which reduced cargo space (without a hull redesign).

    – GalacticCowboy
    Mar 14 at 20:31






  • 9





    @GalacticCowboy Given how much later Great Power overseas colonial competition revolved around securing coaling stations, the fuel issue wasn't just one of economy or shipping space. There were broad areas of the globe where you might want to sail where you couldn't just pick up a load of coal when you wanted one.

    – tbrookside
    Mar 15 at 13:54











  • You might want to add the opening of the Suez canal in 1869. It greatly shortened the Europe to Asia route, mitigating the limited range and endurance of steamships. Before that, steamships were mostly useless for international trade.

    – Rainer P.
    Mar 16 at 16:25





















30














You can't completely replace sail with coal until you are 100% sure that you are going to have access to coal everywhere you need to go.



This is basically an extension of Steve Bird's #1 and #2. It's beyond the economics and into the availability.



Do you have reliably supplied coaling stations all the way to, say, Australia? If it's a military operation, will all the ports be friendly? If not you need to keep sails on hand.



As an example the famous Clipper Ship Cutty Sark was one of the fastest trading ships in the world when she launched (1869) and was used for the China tea trade. But coal quickly covered that route so then she was diverted to trade with Australia.






share|improve this answer





















  • 4





    It's kinda hard to stop and plant some coal like they used to do with trees to replace broken masts. In 1869, plutonium is not available at ever corner drugstore.

    – Mazura
    Mar 14 at 22:39






  • 5





    A steamship could do 8-10 knots, a tea clipper could do 16-18, when time is of the essence it's an easy choice.

    – Separatrix
    Mar 15 at 9:00






  • 2





    This should not be underestimated. A huge driver of 19th century British colonialism was the need for coaling stations. This is why they were so keen on owning resource poor Islands (St Helena, The Falklands, etc) out in the middle of nowhere.

    – Steven Burnap
    Mar 15 at 19:53






  • 3





    As an example of the sort of problem caused by a lack of coaling stations, see the prelude to the Battle of Tsushima Strait, where the Russian Baltic Fleet had to sail halfway around the world without a single coaling stop.

    – Mark
    Mar 15 at 22:15






  • 3





    A good analogy might be to modern-day Tesla cars, where you can't really rely on one as your only transportation if you can't be sure that there'll be adequate recharging stations.

    – Nat
    Mar 17 at 2:33





















9














Even when the infrastructure was in place, why abandon a sunk asset which can still produce some revenue?



Eric Newby wrote The Last Great Grain Race about his 1938 voyage as crew from Port Lincoln, South Australia to Glasgow, Scotland. These tall ships were carrying wheat grown on the plains of South Australia to the UK market. It did not matter to the wheat that the voyage was slower and less comfortable than a steamship. It was cheaper, which mattered to the purchasers of the wheat.



Conversely, migrants from the UK to Australia would book a steamship berth. The South Australian Maritime Museum has a hands-on display of the berths of the sailing era, the early steamship era, and the later liner era. Each has a substantial rise in comfort: from a hay-filled mattress shared with others, to a dormitory room of 6-8, to a twin-share room. The displays also note the fall in voyage duration; and the fall in mortality with each era (especially as the abundant power available in steamships allowed frozen food to be kept refrigerated).



I realise this answer is about the final years of sail. But I hope you find it useful to know how those last years were played out in far-away South Australia, home of last of the working sail ports.






share|improve this answer































    5














    Evolution is slow



    You have fleets over fleets of sailing ships, and then someone, somewhere begins to build steamers. First, the steamer-wharf capacity needs time to ramp-up; then, the steamers need to gain superiority over the sailing ships; and finally the sailing ships need to be phased out. You simply just don't scrap sailing ship just because steamers are available.



    For comparison, even in World War 2 plenty of horses have been used for various tasks. And WW2 is several decades later than the motor-car had been invented.






    share|improve this answer































      3














      1- Reliability. The first steam engines were prone to breakdown. That's not particularly nice in a mine or in a factory but outright dangerous on a ship. It took time before engines were reliable enough for ocean journeys.



      2- Sufficient range. You can't bunker coal in the middle of the Atlantic. Ships need sufficient bunker capacity to cross an ocean and still be able to operate economically. In other words, ships had to be large enough to carry both coal, cargo and make a profit. When the first steam engines appeared, ships lacked the capacity for both. That also took time.



      3- Infrastructure. One harbor on each end of the Atlantic with enough bunker capacity is not enough. You need coaling stations everywhere. And again, it took time to develop a workable coaling network.



      Developing all of the above took time.






      share|improve this answer

































        1














        The premise "If steam was superior to sail..." needs to be properly examined. Certainly steam was superior overall (once the technology was mature), but there were several areas where sail had the edge up to the end of the 19th century.




        • Speed in favourable conditions. As others have mentioned, no steam ship could beat a tea clipper from China to Europe, even without counting the refuelling stops. It was not common to have a predictable route, periodic rather than constant, where speed was of the essence; but in such a case, steam would be noticeably worse.

        • Emergencies. Being caught in the Doldrums could immobilise a sailing ship for weeks; but a boiler explosion (analogous to the 'blue screen of death' that incapacitated more than one US Navy ship when computers were going from useful to ubiquitous) would immobilise a steamship until it was towed into port or abandoned.

        • Cost. Before internal combustion, and away from the limited railways, the only alternative to sea transport was a horse and cart. A coaster taking a load of bricks sixty miles up the coast, loitering until a cargo of grain was ready to go to the city, and then bargaining to transport some heavy machinery for a farm, could make a good profit; but not if every mile covered, full or empty, needed coal. Indeed, naval architects are still looking at putting sails on container ships to reduce fuel bills (though it's fair to say nobody has produced a workable design).

        • Capacity (similar to but not the same as the above). Coal bunkers took up a fair proportion of any cargo ship, reducing the useful load. This was the reason that many naval colliers (taking fuel from the source to a dockyard where the fleet refuelled) used sail; if you are replenishing a huge stock, large amounts at slightly unpredictable intervals are better than small amounts every Tuesday afternoon.


        All of these are rare cases, but help to explain why sail lasted so long in a few corners of the industrialised world.






        share|improve this answer































          0














          This question also seems about why it took steamships close to a century to take over, while it took oilships about 15 years. This has to do with an ever decreasing Product Life Cycle



          The PLC phenomenon is that newer products in the same function will have a shorter economically viable life span.
          Think about how we had radio for a long time, this was replaced by B&W tv's which were replaced by colour TV's. These CRT's are now replaced by flat screens. These products all have the same function: Home Family entertainment in the evening.



          You can also think about transistor radios => boom box => walkman, Mp3 player, iPod, smart phones. (function is portable music)



          So, we can argue that the same principles apply to sail-steam-motor.



          What's more, I'll hazard a guess that technically, going from a coal supply infrastructure to a an oil supply infrastructure is easier than building an entire coal supply infrastructure.
          This answer should be seen as an addition to the ones above.






          share|improve this answer































            0














            Logistics and costs. Wind is free and so coal plus fresh water (as steamships use both) has to preform better than free wind. Both are heavy and take away cargo space.



            The US Great White Fleet sailed around the worlds. This shows the logistics of coal.




            The ships of the Great White Fleet were no exception. In that era, a
            battleship steaming at sea speed consumed its coal supply within a
            week Fresh water— crucial throughout maritime history—was even more
            important in the age of steam power, since steamships were dependent
            on liberal amounts of fresh water to resupply their boilers. Then
            there was the question of feeding warships’ crews. On the voyage of
            the Great White Fleet, the crew complement of the fleet consisted of
            some fourteen thousand men. ,,,




            and




            A study the Naval War College conducted in early 1907 estimated that
            the Great White Fleet would require some one hundred chartered
            colliers
            to support it on its voyage around the world.




            https://digital-commons.usnwc.edu/nwc-review/vol71/iss4/6/



            And it's not so different now in the days of oil/turbines. The Royal New Zealand Navy has two surface warships and 1 tanker. The Royal Australian Navy has 11 warships and two massive tankers.






            share|improve this answer


























            • The United States is the Saudi Arabia of coal. Britain also has large domestic reserves of coal. And while wind is free, sails, and rigging are not. They are both expensive labor intensive and wear out and need to be replaced constantly. Again the argument is not coal over sail but coal over both coal and sail. For 100 year after viable reliable coal power was introduced commercial and military fleets chose to maintain both systems on ships

              – JMS
              Mar 17 at 3:04



















            0














            Cost and range.



            Coal is not cheap (in money or lives, in the early industrial area), and you either need a network of coaling stations, or a large ship to carry enough coal and still have room for payload. This meant that, until the use of iron in the 1840s broke the barriers on ship size imposed by wooden construction, steam wasn't a viable option for Atlantic crossings (though it had a role as auxiliary power and, via steam tugs, for port entry and departure)



            In contrast, the limit on a sailing ship's range is the ned to carry food and water for the crew - crossing the Atlantic was pushing the capabilities of sailing ships 350 years earlier, and they quickly evolved to handle longer passages.



            Coaling stations are worth examining in a bit more detail. They aren't much use without a supply of coal! Unless you can mine it locally, you now need to transport enough coal to refuel your steamships, as well as the actual payload.



            Unless you make use of another power source to transport the (lower value and less time critical) coal, you are left with something resembling Tsiolkowski's rocket equation, to calculate the increasingly vast amounts of coal required to replenish the network of coaling stations to keep the steamships running.



            So, naturally the colliers were sailing ships.



            Thus steam actually guaranteed a role for sail for a substantial part of a century - and left sail as the method of choice for bulk cargo, pretty much into the start of the marine diesel era.






            share|improve this answer































              -1














              Maybe it was that most, if not all, of then current ships were sailing ships to start with, and using the steam engine at first was thought to be an added on means of propulsion. However, that apparently changed later as the steam engine became more reliable as well as the availability of the fuel. A big downside of sails was that there were numerous places on the globe where the wind was not consistent or best used for sailing. Reliable steam engines, with enough fuel, negated the use of sails.






              share|improve this answer






















                protected by Pieter Geerkens Mar 17 at 1:10



                Thank you for your interest in this question.
                Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).



                Would you like to answer one of these unanswered questions instead?














                10 Answers
                10






                active

                oldest

                votes








                10 Answers
                10






                active

                oldest

                votes









                active

                oldest

                votes






                active

                oldest

                votes









                65














                I think it comes down to a few basic factors:




                1. Early steam engines weren't very efficient or reliable. So it made sense to retain sails as a backup should the steam engine(s) breakdown or should the ship run out of fuel (especially on longer oceanic voyages were replenishment was uncertain).


                2. Wind-power is essentially free (once you've invested in the masts & sails in the first place), whereas you had to keep buying coal. As the steam engines were inefficient it made sense to have sails to supplement steam. This could be in the form of using them both together to add a few knots to the ship's speed or using one or the other as circumstances demanded (i.e. steam into the wind, sail down wind).


                3. Sailors are a superstitious and conservative folk, they knew sails and sailing, and it took some time to wean them off.


                4. The transition was dependent on a number of later technological changes, such as improvements in boiler design (to improve power, reliability and efficiency), the introduction of iron hulls and the introduction of the screw propeller, to make steam power capable of replacing sail.




                Steam was introduced into naval service when it could improve an existing system, or provide a new method of carrying out essential business. It did not revolutionise the conduct of operations at sea overnight. Early steam engines were expensive, heavy, uneconomic and ill balanced. They were far from ideal power plants for wooden ships.



                ...



                The 1840s witnessed a number of vital technological developments, of which the screw and the iron ship were the most obvious. Equally important breakthroughs in iron production, boiler design, bearings, lubricants, manufacturing and control systems were essential to the development of modern warships. Many of these technologies were drawn from other engineering sectors. By 1850 steam ships were effective and reliable enough to be used globally, while fuel supplies. engineering back-up and vital docking accommodation were spreading to meet the need. Although a few key commercial routes already carried steam shipping, this was a luxury market, catering for passengers and mail, not bulk produce.





                [For a warship] it made sense to fit a square rig so the ship could cruise under sail, saving the coal for tactical demands, and emergencies.



                The Sail and Steam Navy List, R. Winfield (2004), pg.17







                share|improve this answer





















                • 13





                  Re #2, that's why Skysails en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkySails is selling kite/sails to assist motor-powered ships. Fuel costs.

                  – jamesqf
                  Mar 14 at 17:50






                • 4





                  I would add that hulls also had to be redesigned to leverage steam power properly, thereby increasing the efficiency of the steam power, and this also took a few design generations.

                  – Pieter Geerkens
                  Mar 14 at 19:04











                • And, you had to carry the fuel (coal), which reduced cargo space (without a hull redesign).

                  – GalacticCowboy
                  Mar 14 at 20:31






                • 9





                  @GalacticCowboy Given how much later Great Power overseas colonial competition revolved around securing coaling stations, the fuel issue wasn't just one of economy or shipping space. There were broad areas of the globe where you might want to sail where you couldn't just pick up a load of coal when you wanted one.

                  – tbrookside
                  Mar 15 at 13:54











                • You might want to add the opening of the Suez canal in 1869. It greatly shortened the Europe to Asia route, mitigating the limited range and endurance of steamships. Before that, steamships were mostly useless for international trade.

                  – Rainer P.
                  Mar 16 at 16:25


















                65














                I think it comes down to a few basic factors:




                1. Early steam engines weren't very efficient or reliable. So it made sense to retain sails as a backup should the steam engine(s) breakdown or should the ship run out of fuel (especially on longer oceanic voyages were replenishment was uncertain).


                2. Wind-power is essentially free (once you've invested in the masts & sails in the first place), whereas you had to keep buying coal. As the steam engines were inefficient it made sense to have sails to supplement steam. This could be in the form of using them both together to add a few knots to the ship's speed or using one or the other as circumstances demanded (i.e. steam into the wind, sail down wind).


                3. Sailors are a superstitious and conservative folk, they knew sails and sailing, and it took some time to wean them off.


                4. The transition was dependent on a number of later technological changes, such as improvements in boiler design (to improve power, reliability and efficiency), the introduction of iron hulls and the introduction of the screw propeller, to make steam power capable of replacing sail.




                Steam was introduced into naval service when it could improve an existing system, or provide a new method of carrying out essential business. It did not revolutionise the conduct of operations at sea overnight. Early steam engines were expensive, heavy, uneconomic and ill balanced. They were far from ideal power plants for wooden ships.



                ...



                The 1840s witnessed a number of vital technological developments, of which the screw and the iron ship were the most obvious. Equally important breakthroughs in iron production, boiler design, bearings, lubricants, manufacturing and control systems were essential to the development of modern warships. Many of these technologies were drawn from other engineering sectors. By 1850 steam ships were effective and reliable enough to be used globally, while fuel supplies. engineering back-up and vital docking accommodation were spreading to meet the need. Although a few key commercial routes already carried steam shipping, this was a luxury market, catering for passengers and mail, not bulk produce.





                [For a warship] it made sense to fit a square rig so the ship could cruise under sail, saving the coal for tactical demands, and emergencies.



                The Sail and Steam Navy List, R. Winfield (2004), pg.17







                share|improve this answer





















                • 13





                  Re #2, that's why Skysails en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkySails is selling kite/sails to assist motor-powered ships. Fuel costs.

                  – jamesqf
                  Mar 14 at 17:50






                • 4





                  I would add that hulls also had to be redesigned to leverage steam power properly, thereby increasing the efficiency of the steam power, and this also took a few design generations.

                  – Pieter Geerkens
                  Mar 14 at 19:04











                • And, you had to carry the fuel (coal), which reduced cargo space (without a hull redesign).

                  – GalacticCowboy
                  Mar 14 at 20:31






                • 9





                  @GalacticCowboy Given how much later Great Power overseas colonial competition revolved around securing coaling stations, the fuel issue wasn't just one of economy or shipping space. There were broad areas of the globe where you might want to sail where you couldn't just pick up a load of coal when you wanted one.

                  – tbrookside
                  Mar 15 at 13:54











                • You might want to add the opening of the Suez canal in 1869. It greatly shortened the Europe to Asia route, mitigating the limited range and endurance of steamships. Before that, steamships were mostly useless for international trade.

                  – Rainer P.
                  Mar 16 at 16:25
















                65












                65








                65







                I think it comes down to a few basic factors:




                1. Early steam engines weren't very efficient or reliable. So it made sense to retain sails as a backup should the steam engine(s) breakdown or should the ship run out of fuel (especially on longer oceanic voyages were replenishment was uncertain).


                2. Wind-power is essentially free (once you've invested in the masts & sails in the first place), whereas you had to keep buying coal. As the steam engines were inefficient it made sense to have sails to supplement steam. This could be in the form of using them both together to add a few knots to the ship's speed or using one or the other as circumstances demanded (i.e. steam into the wind, sail down wind).


                3. Sailors are a superstitious and conservative folk, they knew sails and sailing, and it took some time to wean them off.


                4. The transition was dependent on a number of later technological changes, such as improvements in boiler design (to improve power, reliability and efficiency), the introduction of iron hulls and the introduction of the screw propeller, to make steam power capable of replacing sail.




                Steam was introduced into naval service when it could improve an existing system, or provide a new method of carrying out essential business. It did not revolutionise the conduct of operations at sea overnight. Early steam engines were expensive, heavy, uneconomic and ill balanced. They were far from ideal power plants for wooden ships.



                ...



                The 1840s witnessed a number of vital technological developments, of which the screw and the iron ship were the most obvious. Equally important breakthroughs in iron production, boiler design, bearings, lubricants, manufacturing and control systems were essential to the development of modern warships. Many of these technologies were drawn from other engineering sectors. By 1850 steam ships were effective and reliable enough to be used globally, while fuel supplies. engineering back-up and vital docking accommodation were spreading to meet the need. Although a few key commercial routes already carried steam shipping, this was a luxury market, catering for passengers and mail, not bulk produce.





                [For a warship] it made sense to fit a square rig so the ship could cruise under sail, saving the coal for tactical demands, and emergencies.



                The Sail and Steam Navy List, R. Winfield (2004), pg.17







                share|improve this answer















                I think it comes down to a few basic factors:




                1. Early steam engines weren't very efficient or reliable. So it made sense to retain sails as a backup should the steam engine(s) breakdown or should the ship run out of fuel (especially on longer oceanic voyages were replenishment was uncertain).


                2. Wind-power is essentially free (once you've invested in the masts & sails in the first place), whereas you had to keep buying coal. As the steam engines were inefficient it made sense to have sails to supplement steam. This could be in the form of using them both together to add a few knots to the ship's speed or using one or the other as circumstances demanded (i.e. steam into the wind, sail down wind).


                3. Sailors are a superstitious and conservative folk, they knew sails and sailing, and it took some time to wean them off.


                4. The transition was dependent on a number of later technological changes, such as improvements in boiler design (to improve power, reliability and efficiency), the introduction of iron hulls and the introduction of the screw propeller, to make steam power capable of replacing sail.




                Steam was introduced into naval service when it could improve an existing system, or provide a new method of carrying out essential business. It did not revolutionise the conduct of operations at sea overnight. Early steam engines were expensive, heavy, uneconomic and ill balanced. They were far from ideal power plants for wooden ships.



                ...



                The 1840s witnessed a number of vital technological developments, of which the screw and the iron ship were the most obvious. Equally important breakthroughs in iron production, boiler design, bearings, lubricants, manufacturing and control systems were essential to the development of modern warships. Many of these technologies were drawn from other engineering sectors. By 1850 steam ships were effective and reliable enough to be used globally, while fuel supplies. engineering back-up and vital docking accommodation were spreading to meet the need. Although a few key commercial routes already carried steam shipping, this was a luxury market, catering for passengers and mail, not bulk produce.





                [For a warship] it made sense to fit a square rig so the ship could cruise under sail, saving the coal for tactical demands, and emergencies.



                The Sail and Steam Navy List, R. Winfield (2004), pg.17








                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited Mar 14 at 17:56

























                answered Mar 14 at 16:52









                Steve BirdSteve Bird

                13.2k35867




                13.2k35867








                • 13





                  Re #2, that's why Skysails en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkySails is selling kite/sails to assist motor-powered ships. Fuel costs.

                  – jamesqf
                  Mar 14 at 17:50






                • 4





                  I would add that hulls also had to be redesigned to leverage steam power properly, thereby increasing the efficiency of the steam power, and this also took a few design generations.

                  – Pieter Geerkens
                  Mar 14 at 19:04











                • And, you had to carry the fuel (coal), which reduced cargo space (without a hull redesign).

                  – GalacticCowboy
                  Mar 14 at 20:31






                • 9





                  @GalacticCowboy Given how much later Great Power overseas colonial competition revolved around securing coaling stations, the fuel issue wasn't just one of economy or shipping space. There were broad areas of the globe where you might want to sail where you couldn't just pick up a load of coal when you wanted one.

                  – tbrookside
                  Mar 15 at 13:54











                • You might want to add the opening of the Suez canal in 1869. It greatly shortened the Europe to Asia route, mitigating the limited range and endurance of steamships. Before that, steamships were mostly useless for international trade.

                  – Rainer P.
                  Mar 16 at 16:25
















                • 13





                  Re #2, that's why Skysails en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkySails is selling kite/sails to assist motor-powered ships. Fuel costs.

                  – jamesqf
                  Mar 14 at 17:50






                • 4





                  I would add that hulls also had to be redesigned to leverage steam power properly, thereby increasing the efficiency of the steam power, and this also took a few design generations.

                  – Pieter Geerkens
                  Mar 14 at 19:04











                • And, you had to carry the fuel (coal), which reduced cargo space (without a hull redesign).

                  – GalacticCowboy
                  Mar 14 at 20:31






                • 9





                  @GalacticCowboy Given how much later Great Power overseas colonial competition revolved around securing coaling stations, the fuel issue wasn't just one of economy or shipping space. There were broad areas of the globe where you might want to sail where you couldn't just pick up a load of coal when you wanted one.

                  – tbrookside
                  Mar 15 at 13:54











                • You might want to add the opening of the Suez canal in 1869. It greatly shortened the Europe to Asia route, mitigating the limited range and endurance of steamships. Before that, steamships were mostly useless for international trade.

                  – Rainer P.
                  Mar 16 at 16:25










                13




                13





                Re #2, that's why Skysails en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkySails is selling kite/sails to assist motor-powered ships. Fuel costs.

                – jamesqf
                Mar 14 at 17:50





                Re #2, that's why Skysails en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkySails is selling kite/sails to assist motor-powered ships. Fuel costs.

                – jamesqf
                Mar 14 at 17:50




                4




                4





                I would add that hulls also had to be redesigned to leverage steam power properly, thereby increasing the efficiency of the steam power, and this also took a few design generations.

                – Pieter Geerkens
                Mar 14 at 19:04





                I would add that hulls also had to be redesigned to leverage steam power properly, thereby increasing the efficiency of the steam power, and this also took a few design generations.

                – Pieter Geerkens
                Mar 14 at 19:04













                And, you had to carry the fuel (coal), which reduced cargo space (without a hull redesign).

                – GalacticCowboy
                Mar 14 at 20:31





                And, you had to carry the fuel (coal), which reduced cargo space (without a hull redesign).

                – GalacticCowboy
                Mar 14 at 20:31




                9




                9





                @GalacticCowboy Given how much later Great Power overseas colonial competition revolved around securing coaling stations, the fuel issue wasn't just one of economy or shipping space. There were broad areas of the globe where you might want to sail where you couldn't just pick up a load of coal when you wanted one.

                – tbrookside
                Mar 15 at 13:54





                @GalacticCowboy Given how much later Great Power overseas colonial competition revolved around securing coaling stations, the fuel issue wasn't just one of economy or shipping space. There were broad areas of the globe where you might want to sail where you couldn't just pick up a load of coal when you wanted one.

                – tbrookside
                Mar 15 at 13:54













                You might want to add the opening of the Suez canal in 1869. It greatly shortened the Europe to Asia route, mitigating the limited range and endurance of steamships. Before that, steamships were mostly useless for international trade.

                – Rainer P.
                Mar 16 at 16:25







                You might want to add the opening of the Suez canal in 1869. It greatly shortened the Europe to Asia route, mitigating the limited range and endurance of steamships. Before that, steamships were mostly useless for international trade.

                – Rainer P.
                Mar 16 at 16:25













                30














                You can't completely replace sail with coal until you are 100% sure that you are going to have access to coal everywhere you need to go.



                This is basically an extension of Steve Bird's #1 and #2. It's beyond the economics and into the availability.



                Do you have reliably supplied coaling stations all the way to, say, Australia? If it's a military operation, will all the ports be friendly? If not you need to keep sails on hand.



                As an example the famous Clipper Ship Cutty Sark was one of the fastest trading ships in the world when she launched (1869) and was used for the China tea trade. But coal quickly covered that route so then she was diverted to trade with Australia.






                share|improve this answer





















                • 4





                  It's kinda hard to stop and plant some coal like they used to do with trees to replace broken masts. In 1869, plutonium is not available at ever corner drugstore.

                  – Mazura
                  Mar 14 at 22:39






                • 5





                  A steamship could do 8-10 knots, a tea clipper could do 16-18, when time is of the essence it's an easy choice.

                  – Separatrix
                  Mar 15 at 9:00






                • 2





                  This should not be underestimated. A huge driver of 19th century British colonialism was the need for coaling stations. This is why they were so keen on owning resource poor Islands (St Helena, The Falklands, etc) out in the middle of nowhere.

                  – Steven Burnap
                  Mar 15 at 19:53






                • 3





                  As an example of the sort of problem caused by a lack of coaling stations, see the prelude to the Battle of Tsushima Strait, where the Russian Baltic Fleet had to sail halfway around the world without a single coaling stop.

                  – Mark
                  Mar 15 at 22:15






                • 3





                  A good analogy might be to modern-day Tesla cars, where you can't really rely on one as your only transportation if you can't be sure that there'll be adequate recharging stations.

                  – Nat
                  Mar 17 at 2:33


















                30














                You can't completely replace sail with coal until you are 100% sure that you are going to have access to coal everywhere you need to go.



                This is basically an extension of Steve Bird's #1 and #2. It's beyond the economics and into the availability.



                Do you have reliably supplied coaling stations all the way to, say, Australia? If it's a military operation, will all the ports be friendly? If not you need to keep sails on hand.



                As an example the famous Clipper Ship Cutty Sark was one of the fastest trading ships in the world when she launched (1869) and was used for the China tea trade. But coal quickly covered that route so then she was diverted to trade with Australia.






                share|improve this answer





















                • 4





                  It's kinda hard to stop and plant some coal like they used to do with trees to replace broken masts. In 1869, plutonium is not available at ever corner drugstore.

                  – Mazura
                  Mar 14 at 22:39






                • 5





                  A steamship could do 8-10 knots, a tea clipper could do 16-18, when time is of the essence it's an easy choice.

                  – Separatrix
                  Mar 15 at 9:00






                • 2





                  This should not be underestimated. A huge driver of 19th century British colonialism was the need for coaling stations. This is why they were so keen on owning resource poor Islands (St Helena, The Falklands, etc) out in the middle of nowhere.

                  – Steven Burnap
                  Mar 15 at 19:53






                • 3





                  As an example of the sort of problem caused by a lack of coaling stations, see the prelude to the Battle of Tsushima Strait, where the Russian Baltic Fleet had to sail halfway around the world without a single coaling stop.

                  – Mark
                  Mar 15 at 22:15






                • 3





                  A good analogy might be to modern-day Tesla cars, where you can't really rely on one as your only transportation if you can't be sure that there'll be adequate recharging stations.

                  – Nat
                  Mar 17 at 2:33
















                30












                30








                30







                You can't completely replace sail with coal until you are 100% sure that you are going to have access to coal everywhere you need to go.



                This is basically an extension of Steve Bird's #1 and #2. It's beyond the economics and into the availability.



                Do you have reliably supplied coaling stations all the way to, say, Australia? If it's a military operation, will all the ports be friendly? If not you need to keep sails on hand.



                As an example the famous Clipper Ship Cutty Sark was one of the fastest trading ships in the world when she launched (1869) and was used for the China tea trade. But coal quickly covered that route so then she was diverted to trade with Australia.






                share|improve this answer















                You can't completely replace sail with coal until you are 100% sure that you are going to have access to coal everywhere you need to go.



                This is basically an extension of Steve Bird's #1 and #2. It's beyond the economics and into the availability.



                Do you have reliably supplied coaling stations all the way to, say, Australia? If it's a military operation, will all the ports be friendly? If not you need to keep sails on hand.



                As an example the famous Clipper Ship Cutty Sark was one of the fastest trading ships in the world when she launched (1869) and was used for the China tea trade. But coal quickly covered that route so then she was diverted to trade with Australia.







                share|improve this answer














                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer








                edited Mar 15 at 15:48

























                answered Mar 14 at 19:01









                AllInOneAllInOne

                2,0372822




                2,0372822








                • 4





                  It's kinda hard to stop and plant some coal like they used to do with trees to replace broken masts. In 1869, plutonium is not available at ever corner drugstore.

                  – Mazura
                  Mar 14 at 22:39






                • 5





                  A steamship could do 8-10 knots, a tea clipper could do 16-18, when time is of the essence it's an easy choice.

                  – Separatrix
                  Mar 15 at 9:00






                • 2





                  This should not be underestimated. A huge driver of 19th century British colonialism was the need for coaling stations. This is why they were so keen on owning resource poor Islands (St Helena, The Falklands, etc) out in the middle of nowhere.

                  – Steven Burnap
                  Mar 15 at 19:53






                • 3





                  As an example of the sort of problem caused by a lack of coaling stations, see the prelude to the Battle of Tsushima Strait, where the Russian Baltic Fleet had to sail halfway around the world without a single coaling stop.

                  – Mark
                  Mar 15 at 22:15






                • 3





                  A good analogy might be to modern-day Tesla cars, where you can't really rely on one as your only transportation if you can't be sure that there'll be adequate recharging stations.

                  – Nat
                  Mar 17 at 2:33
















                • 4





                  It's kinda hard to stop and plant some coal like they used to do with trees to replace broken masts. In 1869, plutonium is not available at ever corner drugstore.

                  – Mazura
                  Mar 14 at 22:39






                • 5





                  A steamship could do 8-10 knots, a tea clipper could do 16-18, when time is of the essence it's an easy choice.

                  – Separatrix
                  Mar 15 at 9:00






                • 2





                  This should not be underestimated. A huge driver of 19th century British colonialism was the need for coaling stations. This is why they were so keen on owning resource poor Islands (St Helena, The Falklands, etc) out in the middle of nowhere.

                  – Steven Burnap
                  Mar 15 at 19:53






                • 3





                  As an example of the sort of problem caused by a lack of coaling stations, see the prelude to the Battle of Tsushima Strait, where the Russian Baltic Fleet had to sail halfway around the world without a single coaling stop.

                  – Mark
                  Mar 15 at 22:15






                • 3





                  A good analogy might be to modern-day Tesla cars, where you can't really rely on one as your only transportation if you can't be sure that there'll be adequate recharging stations.

                  – Nat
                  Mar 17 at 2:33










                4




                4





                It's kinda hard to stop and plant some coal like they used to do with trees to replace broken masts. In 1869, plutonium is not available at ever corner drugstore.

                – Mazura
                Mar 14 at 22:39





                It's kinda hard to stop and plant some coal like they used to do with trees to replace broken masts. In 1869, plutonium is not available at ever corner drugstore.

                – Mazura
                Mar 14 at 22:39




                5




                5





                A steamship could do 8-10 knots, a tea clipper could do 16-18, when time is of the essence it's an easy choice.

                – Separatrix
                Mar 15 at 9:00





                A steamship could do 8-10 knots, a tea clipper could do 16-18, when time is of the essence it's an easy choice.

                – Separatrix
                Mar 15 at 9:00




                2




                2





                This should not be underestimated. A huge driver of 19th century British colonialism was the need for coaling stations. This is why they were so keen on owning resource poor Islands (St Helena, The Falklands, etc) out in the middle of nowhere.

                – Steven Burnap
                Mar 15 at 19:53





                This should not be underestimated. A huge driver of 19th century British colonialism was the need for coaling stations. This is why they were so keen on owning resource poor Islands (St Helena, The Falklands, etc) out in the middle of nowhere.

                – Steven Burnap
                Mar 15 at 19:53




                3




                3





                As an example of the sort of problem caused by a lack of coaling stations, see the prelude to the Battle of Tsushima Strait, where the Russian Baltic Fleet had to sail halfway around the world without a single coaling stop.

                – Mark
                Mar 15 at 22:15





                As an example of the sort of problem caused by a lack of coaling stations, see the prelude to the Battle of Tsushima Strait, where the Russian Baltic Fleet had to sail halfway around the world without a single coaling stop.

                – Mark
                Mar 15 at 22:15




                3




                3





                A good analogy might be to modern-day Tesla cars, where you can't really rely on one as your only transportation if you can't be sure that there'll be adequate recharging stations.

                – Nat
                Mar 17 at 2:33







                A good analogy might be to modern-day Tesla cars, where you can't really rely on one as your only transportation if you can't be sure that there'll be adequate recharging stations.

                – Nat
                Mar 17 at 2:33













                9














                Even when the infrastructure was in place, why abandon a sunk asset which can still produce some revenue?



                Eric Newby wrote The Last Great Grain Race about his 1938 voyage as crew from Port Lincoln, South Australia to Glasgow, Scotland. These tall ships were carrying wheat grown on the plains of South Australia to the UK market. It did not matter to the wheat that the voyage was slower and less comfortable than a steamship. It was cheaper, which mattered to the purchasers of the wheat.



                Conversely, migrants from the UK to Australia would book a steamship berth. The South Australian Maritime Museum has a hands-on display of the berths of the sailing era, the early steamship era, and the later liner era. Each has a substantial rise in comfort: from a hay-filled mattress shared with others, to a dormitory room of 6-8, to a twin-share room. The displays also note the fall in voyage duration; and the fall in mortality with each era (especially as the abundant power available in steamships allowed frozen food to be kept refrigerated).



                I realise this answer is about the final years of sail. But I hope you find it useful to know how those last years were played out in far-away South Australia, home of last of the working sail ports.






                share|improve this answer




























                  9














                  Even when the infrastructure was in place, why abandon a sunk asset which can still produce some revenue?



                  Eric Newby wrote The Last Great Grain Race about his 1938 voyage as crew from Port Lincoln, South Australia to Glasgow, Scotland. These tall ships were carrying wheat grown on the plains of South Australia to the UK market. It did not matter to the wheat that the voyage was slower and less comfortable than a steamship. It was cheaper, which mattered to the purchasers of the wheat.



                  Conversely, migrants from the UK to Australia would book a steamship berth. The South Australian Maritime Museum has a hands-on display of the berths of the sailing era, the early steamship era, and the later liner era. Each has a substantial rise in comfort: from a hay-filled mattress shared with others, to a dormitory room of 6-8, to a twin-share room. The displays also note the fall in voyage duration; and the fall in mortality with each era (especially as the abundant power available in steamships allowed frozen food to be kept refrigerated).



                  I realise this answer is about the final years of sail. But I hope you find it useful to know how those last years were played out in far-away South Australia, home of last of the working sail ports.






                  share|improve this answer


























                    9












                    9








                    9







                    Even when the infrastructure was in place, why abandon a sunk asset which can still produce some revenue?



                    Eric Newby wrote The Last Great Grain Race about his 1938 voyage as crew from Port Lincoln, South Australia to Glasgow, Scotland. These tall ships were carrying wheat grown on the plains of South Australia to the UK market. It did not matter to the wheat that the voyage was slower and less comfortable than a steamship. It was cheaper, which mattered to the purchasers of the wheat.



                    Conversely, migrants from the UK to Australia would book a steamship berth. The South Australian Maritime Museum has a hands-on display of the berths of the sailing era, the early steamship era, and the later liner era. Each has a substantial rise in comfort: from a hay-filled mattress shared with others, to a dormitory room of 6-8, to a twin-share room. The displays also note the fall in voyage duration; and the fall in mortality with each era (especially as the abundant power available in steamships allowed frozen food to be kept refrigerated).



                    I realise this answer is about the final years of sail. But I hope you find it useful to know how those last years were played out in far-away South Australia, home of last of the working sail ports.






                    share|improve this answer













                    Even when the infrastructure was in place, why abandon a sunk asset which can still produce some revenue?



                    Eric Newby wrote The Last Great Grain Race about his 1938 voyage as crew from Port Lincoln, South Australia to Glasgow, Scotland. These tall ships were carrying wheat grown on the plains of South Australia to the UK market. It did not matter to the wheat that the voyage was slower and less comfortable than a steamship. It was cheaper, which mattered to the purchasers of the wheat.



                    Conversely, migrants from the UK to Australia would book a steamship berth. The South Australian Maritime Museum has a hands-on display of the berths of the sailing era, the early steamship era, and the later liner era. Each has a substantial rise in comfort: from a hay-filled mattress shared with others, to a dormitory room of 6-8, to a twin-share room. The displays also note the fall in voyage duration; and the fall in mortality with each era (especially as the abundant power available in steamships allowed frozen food to be kept refrigerated).



                    I realise this answer is about the final years of sail. But I hope you find it useful to know how those last years were played out in far-away South Australia, home of last of the working sail ports.







                    share|improve this answer












                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer










                    answered Mar 15 at 13:27









                    vk5tuvk5tu

                    20111




                    20111























                        5














                        Evolution is slow



                        You have fleets over fleets of sailing ships, and then someone, somewhere begins to build steamers. First, the steamer-wharf capacity needs time to ramp-up; then, the steamers need to gain superiority over the sailing ships; and finally the sailing ships need to be phased out. You simply just don't scrap sailing ship just because steamers are available.



                        For comparison, even in World War 2 plenty of horses have been used for various tasks. And WW2 is several decades later than the motor-car had been invented.






                        share|improve this answer




























                          5














                          Evolution is slow



                          You have fleets over fleets of sailing ships, and then someone, somewhere begins to build steamers. First, the steamer-wharf capacity needs time to ramp-up; then, the steamers need to gain superiority over the sailing ships; and finally the sailing ships need to be phased out. You simply just don't scrap sailing ship just because steamers are available.



                          For comparison, even in World War 2 plenty of horses have been used for various tasks. And WW2 is several decades later than the motor-car had been invented.






                          share|improve this answer


























                            5












                            5








                            5







                            Evolution is slow



                            You have fleets over fleets of sailing ships, and then someone, somewhere begins to build steamers. First, the steamer-wharf capacity needs time to ramp-up; then, the steamers need to gain superiority over the sailing ships; and finally the sailing ships need to be phased out. You simply just don't scrap sailing ship just because steamers are available.



                            For comparison, even in World War 2 plenty of horses have been used for various tasks. And WW2 is several decades later than the motor-car had been invented.






                            share|improve this answer













                            Evolution is slow



                            You have fleets over fleets of sailing ships, and then someone, somewhere begins to build steamers. First, the steamer-wharf capacity needs time to ramp-up; then, the steamers need to gain superiority over the sailing ships; and finally the sailing ships need to be phased out. You simply just don't scrap sailing ship just because steamers are available.



                            For comparison, even in World War 2 plenty of horses have been used for various tasks. And WW2 is several decades later than the motor-car had been invented.







                            share|improve this answer












                            share|improve this answer



                            share|improve this answer










                            answered Mar 15 at 12:30









                            Dohn JoeDohn Joe

                            948413




                            948413























                                3














                                1- Reliability. The first steam engines were prone to breakdown. That's not particularly nice in a mine or in a factory but outright dangerous on a ship. It took time before engines were reliable enough for ocean journeys.



                                2- Sufficient range. You can't bunker coal in the middle of the Atlantic. Ships need sufficient bunker capacity to cross an ocean and still be able to operate economically. In other words, ships had to be large enough to carry both coal, cargo and make a profit. When the first steam engines appeared, ships lacked the capacity for both. That also took time.



                                3- Infrastructure. One harbor on each end of the Atlantic with enough bunker capacity is not enough. You need coaling stations everywhere. And again, it took time to develop a workable coaling network.



                                Developing all of the above took time.






                                share|improve this answer






























                                  3














                                  1- Reliability. The first steam engines were prone to breakdown. That's not particularly nice in a mine or in a factory but outright dangerous on a ship. It took time before engines were reliable enough for ocean journeys.



                                  2- Sufficient range. You can't bunker coal in the middle of the Atlantic. Ships need sufficient bunker capacity to cross an ocean and still be able to operate economically. In other words, ships had to be large enough to carry both coal, cargo and make a profit. When the first steam engines appeared, ships lacked the capacity for both. That also took time.



                                  3- Infrastructure. One harbor on each end of the Atlantic with enough bunker capacity is not enough. You need coaling stations everywhere. And again, it took time to develop a workable coaling network.



                                  Developing all of the above took time.






                                  share|improve this answer




























                                    3












                                    3








                                    3







                                    1- Reliability. The first steam engines were prone to breakdown. That's not particularly nice in a mine or in a factory but outright dangerous on a ship. It took time before engines were reliable enough for ocean journeys.



                                    2- Sufficient range. You can't bunker coal in the middle of the Atlantic. Ships need sufficient bunker capacity to cross an ocean and still be able to operate economically. In other words, ships had to be large enough to carry both coal, cargo and make a profit. When the first steam engines appeared, ships lacked the capacity for both. That also took time.



                                    3- Infrastructure. One harbor on each end of the Atlantic with enough bunker capacity is not enough. You need coaling stations everywhere. And again, it took time to develop a workable coaling network.



                                    Developing all of the above took time.






                                    share|improve this answer















                                    1- Reliability. The first steam engines were prone to breakdown. That's not particularly nice in a mine or in a factory but outright dangerous on a ship. It took time before engines were reliable enough for ocean journeys.



                                    2- Sufficient range. You can't bunker coal in the middle of the Atlantic. Ships need sufficient bunker capacity to cross an ocean and still be able to operate economically. In other words, ships had to be large enough to carry both coal, cargo and make a profit. When the first steam engines appeared, ships lacked the capacity for both. That also took time.



                                    3- Infrastructure. One harbor on each end of the Atlantic with enough bunker capacity is not enough. You need coaling stations everywhere. And again, it took time to develop a workable coaling network.



                                    Developing all of the above took time.







                                    share|improve this answer














                                    share|improve this answer



                                    share|improve this answer








                                    edited Mar 15 at 6:42

























                                    answered Mar 15 at 0:45









                                    JosJos

                                    9,38712246




                                    9,38712246























                                        1














                                        The premise "If steam was superior to sail..." needs to be properly examined. Certainly steam was superior overall (once the technology was mature), but there were several areas where sail had the edge up to the end of the 19th century.




                                        • Speed in favourable conditions. As others have mentioned, no steam ship could beat a tea clipper from China to Europe, even without counting the refuelling stops. It was not common to have a predictable route, periodic rather than constant, where speed was of the essence; but in such a case, steam would be noticeably worse.

                                        • Emergencies. Being caught in the Doldrums could immobilise a sailing ship for weeks; but a boiler explosion (analogous to the 'blue screen of death' that incapacitated more than one US Navy ship when computers were going from useful to ubiquitous) would immobilise a steamship until it was towed into port or abandoned.

                                        • Cost. Before internal combustion, and away from the limited railways, the only alternative to sea transport was a horse and cart. A coaster taking a load of bricks sixty miles up the coast, loitering until a cargo of grain was ready to go to the city, and then bargaining to transport some heavy machinery for a farm, could make a good profit; but not if every mile covered, full or empty, needed coal. Indeed, naval architects are still looking at putting sails on container ships to reduce fuel bills (though it's fair to say nobody has produced a workable design).

                                        • Capacity (similar to but not the same as the above). Coal bunkers took up a fair proportion of any cargo ship, reducing the useful load. This was the reason that many naval colliers (taking fuel from the source to a dockyard where the fleet refuelled) used sail; if you are replenishing a huge stock, large amounts at slightly unpredictable intervals are better than small amounts every Tuesday afternoon.


                                        All of these are rare cases, but help to explain why sail lasted so long in a few corners of the industrialised world.






                                        share|improve this answer




























                                          1














                                          The premise "If steam was superior to sail..." needs to be properly examined. Certainly steam was superior overall (once the technology was mature), but there were several areas where sail had the edge up to the end of the 19th century.




                                          • Speed in favourable conditions. As others have mentioned, no steam ship could beat a tea clipper from China to Europe, even without counting the refuelling stops. It was not common to have a predictable route, periodic rather than constant, where speed was of the essence; but in such a case, steam would be noticeably worse.

                                          • Emergencies. Being caught in the Doldrums could immobilise a sailing ship for weeks; but a boiler explosion (analogous to the 'blue screen of death' that incapacitated more than one US Navy ship when computers were going from useful to ubiquitous) would immobilise a steamship until it was towed into port or abandoned.

                                          • Cost. Before internal combustion, and away from the limited railways, the only alternative to sea transport was a horse and cart. A coaster taking a load of bricks sixty miles up the coast, loitering until a cargo of grain was ready to go to the city, and then bargaining to transport some heavy machinery for a farm, could make a good profit; but not if every mile covered, full or empty, needed coal. Indeed, naval architects are still looking at putting sails on container ships to reduce fuel bills (though it's fair to say nobody has produced a workable design).

                                          • Capacity (similar to but not the same as the above). Coal bunkers took up a fair proportion of any cargo ship, reducing the useful load. This was the reason that many naval colliers (taking fuel from the source to a dockyard where the fleet refuelled) used sail; if you are replenishing a huge stock, large amounts at slightly unpredictable intervals are better than small amounts every Tuesday afternoon.


                                          All of these are rare cases, but help to explain why sail lasted so long in a few corners of the industrialised world.






                                          share|improve this answer


























                                            1












                                            1








                                            1







                                            The premise "If steam was superior to sail..." needs to be properly examined. Certainly steam was superior overall (once the technology was mature), but there were several areas where sail had the edge up to the end of the 19th century.




                                            • Speed in favourable conditions. As others have mentioned, no steam ship could beat a tea clipper from China to Europe, even without counting the refuelling stops. It was not common to have a predictable route, periodic rather than constant, where speed was of the essence; but in such a case, steam would be noticeably worse.

                                            • Emergencies. Being caught in the Doldrums could immobilise a sailing ship for weeks; but a boiler explosion (analogous to the 'blue screen of death' that incapacitated more than one US Navy ship when computers were going from useful to ubiquitous) would immobilise a steamship until it was towed into port or abandoned.

                                            • Cost. Before internal combustion, and away from the limited railways, the only alternative to sea transport was a horse and cart. A coaster taking a load of bricks sixty miles up the coast, loitering until a cargo of grain was ready to go to the city, and then bargaining to transport some heavy machinery for a farm, could make a good profit; but not if every mile covered, full or empty, needed coal. Indeed, naval architects are still looking at putting sails on container ships to reduce fuel bills (though it's fair to say nobody has produced a workable design).

                                            • Capacity (similar to but not the same as the above). Coal bunkers took up a fair proportion of any cargo ship, reducing the useful load. This was the reason that many naval colliers (taking fuel from the source to a dockyard where the fleet refuelled) used sail; if you are replenishing a huge stock, large amounts at slightly unpredictable intervals are better than small amounts every Tuesday afternoon.


                                            All of these are rare cases, but help to explain why sail lasted so long in a few corners of the industrialised world.






                                            share|improve this answer













                                            The premise "If steam was superior to sail..." needs to be properly examined. Certainly steam was superior overall (once the technology was mature), but there were several areas where sail had the edge up to the end of the 19th century.




                                            • Speed in favourable conditions. As others have mentioned, no steam ship could beat a tea clipper from China to Europe, even without counting the refuelling stops. It was not common to have a predictable route, periodic rather than constant, where speed was of the essence; but in such a case, steam would be noticeably worse.

                                            • Emergencies. Being caught in the Doldrums could immobilise a sailing ship for weeks; but a boiler explosion (analogous to the 'blue screen of death' that incapacitated more than one US Navy ship when computers were going from useful to ubiquitous) would immobilise a steamship until it was towed into port or abandoned.

                                            • Cost. Before internal combustion, and away from the limited railways, the only alternative to sea transport was a horse and cart. A coaster taking a load of bricks sixty miles up the coast, loitering until a cargo of grain was ready to go to the city, and then bargaining to transport some heavy machinery for a farm, could make a good profit; but not if every mile covered, full or empty, needed coal. Indeed, naval architects are still looking at putting sails on container ships to reduce fuel bills (though it's fair to say nobody has produced a workable design).

                                            • Capacity (similar to but not the same as the above). Coal bunkers took up a fair proportion of any cargo ship, reducing the useful load. This was the reason that many naval colliers (taking fuel from the source to a dockyard where the fleet refuelled) used sail; if you are replenishing a huge stock, large amounts at slightly unpredictable intervals are better than small amounts every Tuesday afternoon.


                                            All of these are rare cases, but help to explain why sail lasted so long in a few corners of the industrialised world.







                                            share|improve this answer












                                            share|improve this answer



                                            share|improve this answer










                                            answered Mar 17 at 9:46









                                            TimLymingtonTimLymington

                                            78349




                                            78349























                                                0














                                                This question also seems about why it took steamships close to a century to take over, while it took oilships about 15 years. This has to do with an ever decreasing Product Life Cycle



                                                The PLC phenomenon is that newer products in the same function will have a shorter economically viable life span.
                                                Think about how we had radio for a long time, this was replaced by B&W tv's which were replaced by colour TV's. These CRT's are now replaced by flat screens. These products all have the same function: Home Family entertainment in the evening.



                                                You can also think about transistor radios => boom box => walkman, Mp3 player, iPod, smart phones. (function is portable music)



                                                So, we can argue that the same principles apply to sail-steam-motor.



                                                What's more, I'll hazard a guess that technically, going from a coal supply infrastructure to a an oil supply infrastructure is easier than building an entire coal supply infrastructure.
                                                This answer should be seen as an addition to the ones above.






                                                share|improve this answer




























                                                  0














                                                  This question also seems about why it took steamships close to a century to take over, while it took oilships about 15 years. This has to do with an ever decreasing Product Life Cycle



                                                  The PLC phenomenon is that newer products in the same function will have a shorter economically viable life span.
                                                  Think about how we had radio for a long time, this was replaced by B&W tv's which were replaced by colour TV's. These CRT's are now replaced by flat screens. These products all have the same function: Home Family entertainment in the evening.



                                                  You can also think about transistor radios => boom box => walkman, Mp3 player, iPod, smart phones. (function is portable music)



                                                  So, we can argue that the same principles apply to sail-steam-motor.



                                                  What's more, I'll hazard a guess that technically, going from a coal supply infrastructure to a an oil supply infrastructure is easier than building an entire coal supply infrastructure.
                                                  This answer should be seen as an addition to the ones above.






                                                  share|improve this answer


























                                                    0












                                                    0








                                                    0







                                                    This question also seems about why it took steamships close to a century to take over, while it took oilships about 15 years. This has to do with an ever decreasing Product Life Cycle



                                                    The PLC phenomenon is that newer products in the same function will have a shorter economically viable life span.
                                                    Think about how we had radio for a long time, this was replaced by B&W tv's which were replaced by colour TV's. These CRT's are now replaced by flat screens. These products all have the same function: Home Family entertainment in the evening.



                                                    You can also think about transistor radios => boom box => walkman, Mp3 player, iPod, smart phones. (function is portable music)



                                                    So, we can argue that the same principles apply to sail-steam-motor.



                                                    What's more, I'll hazard a guess that technically, going from a coal supply infrastructure to a an oil supply infrastructure is easier than building an entire coal supply infrastructure.
                                                    This answer should be seen as an addition to the ones above.






                                                    share|improve this answer













                                                    This question also seems about why it took steamships close to a century to take over, while it took oilships about 15 years. This has to do with an ever decreasing Product Life Cycle



                                                    The PLC phenomenon is that newer products in the same function will have a shorter economically viable life span.
                                                    Think about how we had radio for a long time, this was replaced by B&W tv's which were replaced by colour TV's. These CRT's are now replaced by flat screens. These products all have the same function: Home Family entertainment in the evening.



                                                    You can also think about transistor radios => boom box => walkman, Mp3 player, iPod, smart phones. (function is portable music)



                                                    So, we can argue that the same principles apply to sail-steam-motor.



                                                    What's more, I'll hazard a guess that technically, going from a coal supply infrastructure to a an oil supply infrastructure is easier than building an entire coal supply infrastructure.
                                                    This answer should be seen as an addition to the ones above.







                                                    share|improve this answer












                                                    share|improve this answer



                                                    share|improve this answer










                                                    answered Mar 16 at 16:34









                                                    GwenKillerbyGwenKillerby

                                                    1651




                                                    1651























                                                        0














                                                        Logistics and costs. Wind is free and so coal plus fresh water (as steamships use both) has to preform better than free wind. Both are heavy and take away cargo space.



                                                        The US Great White Fleet sailed around the worlds. This shows the logistics of coal.




                                                        The ships of the Great White Fleet were no exception. In that era, a
                                                        battleship steaming at sea speed consumed its coal supply within a
                                                        week Fresh water— crucial throughout maritime history—was even more
                                                        important in the age of steam power, since steamships were dependent
                                                        on liberal amounts of fresh water to resupply their boilers. Then
                                                        there was the question of feeding warships’ crews. On the voyage of
                                                        the Great White Fleet, the crew complement of the fleet consisted of
                                                        some fourteen thousand men. ,,,




                                                        and




                                                        A study the Naval War College conducted in early 1907 estimated that
                                                        the Great White Fleet would require some one hundred chartered
                                                        colliers
                                                        to support it on its voyage around the world.




                                                        https://digital-commons.usnwc.edu/nwc-review/vol71/iss4/6/



                                                        And it's not so different now in the days of oil/turbines. The Royal New Zealand Navy has two surface warships and 1 tanker. The Royal Australian Navy has 11 warships and two massive tankers.






                                                        share|improve this answer


























                                                        • The United States is the Saudi Arabia of coal. Britain also has large domestic reserves of coal. And while wind is free, sails, and rigging are not. They are both expensive labor intensive and wear out and need to be replaced constantly. Again the argument is not coal over sail but coal over both coal and sail. For 100 year after viable reliable coal power was introduced commercial and military fleets chose to maintain both systems on ships

                                                          – JMS
                                                          Mar 17 at 3:04
















                                                        0














                                                        Logistics and costs. Wind is free and so coal plus fresh water (as steamships use both) has to preform better than free wind. Both are heavy and take away cargo space.



                                                        The US Great White Fleet sailed around the worlds. This shows the logistics of coal.




                                                        The ships of the Great White Fleet were no exception. In that era, a
                                                        battleship steaming at sea speed consumed its coal supply within a
                                                        week Fresh water— crucial throughout maritime history—was even more
                                                        important in the age of steam power, since steamships were dependent
                                                        on liberal amounts of fresh water to resupply their boilers. Then
                                                        there was the question of feeding warships’ crews. On the voyage of
                                                        the Great White Fleet, the crew complement of the fleet consisted of
                                                        some fourteen thousand men. ,,,




                                                        and




                                                        A study the Naval War College conducted in early 1907 estimated that
                                                        the Great White Fleet would require some one hundred chartered
                                                        colliers
                                                        to support it on its voyage around the world.




                                                        https://digital-commons.usnwc.edu/nwc-review/vol71/iss4/6/



                                                        And it's not so different now in the days of oil/turbines. The Royal New Zealand Navy has two surface warships and 1 tanker. The Royal Australian Navy has 11 warships and two massive tankers.






                                                        share|improve this answer


























                                                        • The United States is the Saudi Arabia of coal. Britain also has large domestic reserves of coal. And while wind is free, sails, and rigging are not. They are both expensive labor intensive and wear out and need to be replaced constantly. Again the argument is not coal over sail but coal over both coal and sail. For 100 year after viable reliable coal power was introduced commercial and military fleets chose to maintain both systems on ships

                                                          – JMS
                                                          Mar 17 at 3:04














                                                        0












                                                        0








                                                        0







                                                        Logistics and costs. Wind is free and so coal plus fresh water (as steamships use both) has to preform better than free wind. Both are heavy and take away cargo space.



                                                        The US Great White Fleet sailed around the worlds. This shows the logistics of coal.




                                                        The ships of the Great White Fleet were no exception. In that era, a
                                                        battleship steaming at sea speed consumed its coal supply within a
                                                        week Fresh water— crucial throughout maritime history—was even more
                                                        important in the age of steam power, since steamships were dependent
                                                        on liberal amounts of fresh water to resupply their boilers. Then
                                                        there was the question of feeding warships’ crews. On the voyage of
                                                        the Great White Fleet, the crew complement of the fleet consisted of
                                                        some fourteen thousand men. ,,,




                                                        and




                                                        A study the Naval War College conducted in early 1907 estimated that
                                                        the Great White Fleet would require some one hundred chartered
                                                        colliers
                                                        to support it on its voyage around the world.




                                                        https://digital-commons.usnwc.edu/nwc-review/vol71/iss4/6/



                                                        And it's not so different now in the days of oil/turbines. The Royal New Zealand Navy has two surface warships and 1 tanker. The Royal Australian Navy has 11 warships and two massive tankers.






                                                        share|improve this answer















                                                        Logistics and costs. Wind is free and so coal plus fresh water (as steamships use both) has to preform better than free wind. Both are heavy and take away cargo space.



                                                        The US Great White Fleet sailed around the worlds. This shows the logistics of coal.




                                                        The ships of the Great White Fleet were no exception. In that era, a
                                                        battleship steaming at sea speed consumed its coal supply within a
                                                        week Fresh water— crucial throughout maritime history—was even more
                                                        important in the age of steam power, since steamships were dependent
                                                        on liberal amounts of fresh water to resupply their boilers. Then
                                                        there was the question of feeding warships’ crews. On the voyage of
                                                        the Great White Fleet, the crew complement of the fleet consisted of
                                                        some fourteen thousand men. ,,,




                                                        and




                                                        A study the Naval War College conducted in early 1907 estimated that
                                                        the Great White Fleet would require some one hundred chartered
                                                        colliers
                                                        to support it on its voyage around the world.




                                                        https://digital-commons.usnwc.edu/nwc-review/vol71/iss4/6/



                                                        And it's not so different now in the days of oil/turbines. The Royal New Zealand Navy has two surface warships and 1 tanker. The Royal Australian Navy has 11 warships and two massive tankers.







                                                        share|improve this answer














                                                        share|improve this answer



                                                        share|improve this answer








                                                        edited Mar 16 at 19:31

























                                                        answered Mar 16 at 19:23









                                                        user37087user37087

                                                        11




                                                        11













                                                        • The United States is the Saudi Arabia of coal. Britain also has large domestic reserves of coal. And while wind is free, sails, and rigging are not. They are both expensive labor intensive and wear out and need to be replaced constantly. Again the argument is not coal over sail but coal over both coal and sail. For 100 year after viable reliable coal power was introduced commercial and military fleets chose to maintain both systems on ships

                                                          – JMS
                                                          Mar 17 at 3:04



















                                                        • The United States is the Saudi Arabia of coal. Britain also has large domestic reserves of coal. And while wind is free, sails, and rigging are not. They are both expensive labor intensive and wear out and need to be replaced constantly. Again the argument is not coal over sail but coal over both coal and sail. For 100 year after viable reliable coal power was introduced commercial and military fleets chose to maintain both systems on ships

                                                          – JMS
                                                          Mar 17 at 3:04

















                                                        The United States is the Saudi Arabia of coal. Britain also has large domestic reserves of coal. And while wind is free, sails, and rigging are not. They are both expensive labor intensive and wear out and need to be replaced constantly. Again the argument is not coal over sail but coal over both coal and sail. For 100 year after viable reliable coal power was introduced commercial and military fleets chose to maintain both systems on ships

                                                        – JMS
                                                        Mar 17 at 3:04





                                                        The United States is the Saudi Arabia of coal. Britain also has large domestic reserves of coal. And while wind is free, sails, and rigging are not. They are both expensive labor intensive and wear out and need to be replaced constantly. Again the argument is not coal over sail but coal over both coal and sail. For 100 year after viable reliable coal power was introduced commercial and military fleets chose to maintain both systems on ships

                                                        – JMS
                                                        Mar 17 at 3:04











                                                        0














                                                        Cost and range.



                                                        Coal is not cheap (in money or lives, in the early industrial area), and you either need a network of coaling stations, or a large ship to carry enough coal and still have room for payload. This meant that, until the use of iron in the 1840s broke the barriers on ship size imposed by wooden construction, steam wasn't a viable option for Atlantic crossings (though it had a role as auxiliary power and, via steam tugs, for port entry and departure)



                                                        In contrast, the limit on a sailing ship's range is the ned to carry food and water for the crew - crossing the Atlantic was pushing the capabilities of sailing ships 350 years earlier, and they quickly evolved to handle longer passages.



                                                        Coaling stations are worth examining in a bit more detail. They aren't much use without a supply of coal! Unless you can mine it locally, you now need to transport enough coal to refuel your steamships, as well as the actual payload.



                                                        Unless you make use of another power source to transport the (lower value and less time critical) coal, you are left with something resembling Tsiolkowski's rocket equation, to calculate the increasingly vast amounts of coal required to replenish the network of coaling stations to keep the steamships running.



                                                        So, naturally the colliers were sailing ships.



                                                        Thus steam actually guaranteed a role for sail for a substantial part of a century - and left sail as the method of choice for bulk cargo, pretty much into the start of the marine diesel era.






                                                        share|improve this answer




























                                                          0














                                                          Cost and range.



                                                          Coal is not cheap (in money or lives, in the early industrial area), and you either need a network of coaling stations, or a large ship to carry enough coal and still have room for payload. This meant that, until the use of iron in the 1840s broke the barriers on ship size imposed by wooden construction, steam wasn't a viable option for Atlantic crossings (though it had a role as auxiliary power and, via steam tugs, for port entry and departure)



                                                          In contrast, the limit on a sailing ship's range is the ned to carry food and water for the crew - crossing the Atlantic was pushing the capabilities of sailing ships 350 years earlier, and they quickly evolved to handle longer passages.



                                                          Coaling stations are worth examining in a bit more detail. They aren't much use without a supply of coal! Unless you can mine it locally, you now need to transport enough coal to refuel your steamships, as well as the actual payload.



                                                          Unless you make use of another power source to transport the (lower value and less time critical) coal, you are left with something resembling Tsiolkowski's rocket equation, to calculate the increasingly vast amounts of coal required to replenish the network of coaling stations to keep the steamships running.



                                                          So, naturally the colliers were sailing ships.



                                                          Thus steam actually guaranteed a role for sail for a substantial part of a century - and left sail as the method of choice for bulk cargo, pretty much into the start of the marine diesel era.






                                                          share|improve this answer


























                                                            0












                                                            0








                                                            0







                                                            Cost and range.



                                                            Coal is not cheap (in money or lives, in the early industrial area), and you either need a network of coaling stations, or a large ship to carry enough coal and still have room for payload. This meant that, until the use of iron in the 1840s broke the barriers on ship size imposed by wooden construction, steam wasn't a viable option for Atlantic crossings (though it had a role as auxiliary power and, via steam tugs, for port entry and departure)



                                                            In contrast, the limit on a sailing ship's range is the ned to carry food and water for the crew - crossing the Atlantic was pushing the capabilities of sailing ships 350 years earlier, and they quickly evolved to handle longer passages.



                                                            Coaling stations are worth examining in a bit more detail. They aren't much use without a supply of coal! Unless you can mine it locally, you now need to transport enough coal to refuel your steamships, as well as the actual payload.



                                                            Unless you make use of another power source to transport the (lower value and less time critical) coal, you are left with something resembling Tsiolkowski's rocket equation, to calculate the increasingly vast amounts of coal required to replenish the network of coaling stations to keep the steamships running.



                                                            So, naturally the colliers were sailing ships.



                                                            Thus steam actually guaranteed a role for sail for a substantial part of a century - and left sail as the method of choice for bulk cargo, pretty much into the start of the marine diesel era.






                                                            share|improve this answer













                                                            Cost and range.



                                                            Coal is not cheap (in money or lives, in the early industrial area), and you either need a network of coaling stations, or a large ship to carry enough coal and still have room for payload. This meant that, until the use of iron in the 1840s broke the barriers on ship size imposed by wooden construction, steam wasn't a viable option for Atlantic crossings (though it had a role as auxiliary power and, via steam tugs, for port entry and departure)



                                                            In contrast, the limit on a sailing ship's range is the ned to carry food and water for the crew - crossing the Atlantic was pushing the capabilities of sailing ships 350 years earlier, and they quickly evolved to handle longer passages.



                                                            Coaling stations are worth examining in a bit more detail. They aren't much use without a supply of coal! Unless you can mine it locally, you now need to transport enough coal to refuel your steamships, as well as the actual payload.



                                                            Unless you make use of another power source to transport the (lower value and less time critical) coal, you are left with something resembling Tsiolkowski's rocket equation, to calculate the increasingly vast amounts of coal required to replenish the network of coaling stations to keep the steamships running.



                                                            So, naturally the colliers were sailing ships.



                                                            Thus steam actually guaranteed a role for sail for a substantial part of a century - and left sail as the method of choice for bulk cargo, pretty much into the start of the marine diesel era.







                                                            share|improve this answer












                                                            share|improve this answer



                                                            share|improve this answer










                                                            answered Mar 17 at 12:26









                                                            Brian DrummondBrian Drummond

                                                            54037




                                                            54037























                                                                -1














                                                                Maybe it was that most, if not all, of then current ships were sailing ships to start with, and using the steam engine at first was thought to be an added on means of propulsion. However, that apparently changed later as the steam engine became more reliable as well as the availability of the fuel. A big downside of sails was that there were numerous places on the globe where the wind was not consistent or best used for sailing. Reliable steam engines, with enough fuel, negated the use of sails.






                                                                share|improve this answer




























                                                                  -1














                                                                  Maybe it was that most, if not all, of then current ships were sailing ships to start with, and using the steam engine at first was thought to be an added on means of propulsion. However, that apparently changed later as the steam engine became more reliable as well as the availability of the fuel. A big downside of sails was that there were numerous places on the globe where the wind was not consistent or best used for sailing. Reliable steam engines, with enough fuel, negated the use of sails.






                                                                  share|improve this answer


























                                                                    -1












                                                                    -1








                                                                    -1







                                                                    Maybe it was that most, if not all, of then current ships were sailing ships to start with, and using the steam engine at first was thought to be an added on means of propulsion. However, that apparently changed later as the steam engine became more reliable as well as the availability of the fuel. A big downside of sails was that there were numerous places on the globe where the wind was not consistent or best used for sailing. Reliable steam engines, with enough fuel, negated the use of sails.






                                                                    share|improve this answer













                                                                    Maybe it was that most, if not all, of then current ships were sailing ships to start with, and using the steam engine at first was thought to be an added on means of propulsion. However, that apparently changed later as the steam engine became more reliable as well as the availability of the fuel. A big downside of sails was that there were numerous places on the globe where the wind was not consistent or best used for sailing. Reliable steam engines, with enough fuel, negated the use of sails.







                                                                    share|improve this answer












                                                                    share|improve this answer



                                                                    share|improve this answer










                                                                    answered Mar 16 at 0:10









                                                                    oranguestoranguest

                                                                    1




                                                                    1

















                                                                        protected by Pieter Geerkens Mar 17 at 1:10



                                                                        Thank you for your interest in this question.
                                                                        Because it has attracted low-quality or spam answers that had to be removed, posting an answer now requires 10 reputation on this site (the association bonus does not count).



                                                                        Would you like to answer one of these unanswered questions instead?



                                                                        Popular posts from this blog

                                                                        Masuk log Menu navigasi

                                                                        Identifying “long and narrow” polygons in with PostGISlength and width of polygonWhy postgis st_overlaps reports Qgis' “avoid intersections” generated polygon as overlapping with others?Adjusting polygons to boundary and filling holesDrawing polygons with fixed area?How to remove spikes in Polygons with PostGISDeleting sliver polygons after difference operation in QGIS?Snapping boundaries in PostGISSplit polygon into parts adding attributes based on underlying polygon in QGISSplitting overlap between polygons and assign to nearest polygon using PostGIS?Expanding polygons and clipping at midpoint?Removing Intersection of Buffers in Same Layers

                                                                        Старые Смолеговицы Содержание История | География | Демография | Достопримечательности | Примечания | НавигацияHGЯOLHGЯOL41 206 832 01641 606 406 141Административно-территориальное деление Ленинградской области«Переписная оброчная книга Водской пятины 1500 года», С. 793«Карта Ингерманландии: Ивангорода, Яма, Копорья, Нотеборга», по материалам 1676 г.«Генеральная карта провинции Ингерманландии» Э. Белинга и А. Андерсина, 1704 г., составлена по материалам 1678 г.«Географический чертёж над Ижорскою землей со своими городами» Адриана Шонбека 1705 г.Новая и достоверная всей Ингерманландии ланткарта. Грав. А. Ростовцев. СПб., 1727 г.Топографическая карта Санкт-Петербургской губернии. 5-и верстка. Шуберт. 1834 г.Описание Санкт-Петербургской губернии по уездам и станамСпецкарта западной части России Ф. Ф. Шуберта. 1844 г.Алфавитный список селений по уездам и станам С.-Петербургской губернииСписки населённых мест Российской Империи, составленные и издаваемые центральным статистическим комитетом министерства внутренних дел. XXXVII. Санкт-Петербургская губерния. По состоянию на 1862 год. СПб. 1864. С. 203Материалы по статистике народного хозяйства в С.-Петербургской губернии. Вып. IX. Частновладельческое хозяйство в Ямбургском уезде. СПб, 1888, С. 146, С. 2, 7, 54Положение о гербе муниципального образования Курское сельское поселениеСправочник истории административно-территориального деления Ленинградской области.Топографическая карта Ленинградской области, квадрат О-35-23-В (Хотыницы), 1930 г.АрхивированоАдминистративно-территориальное деление Ленинградской области. — Л., 1933, С. 27, 198АрхивированоАдминистративно-экономический справочник по Ленинградской области. — Л., 1936, с. 219АрхивированоАдминистративно-территориальное деление Ленинградской области. — Л., 1966, с. 175АрхивированоАдминистративно-территориальное деление Ленинградской области. — Лениздат, 1973, С. 180АрхивированоАдминистративно-территориальное деление Ленинградской области. — Лениздат, 1990, ISBN 5-289-00612-5, С. 38АрхивированоАдминистративно-территориальное деление Ленинградской области. — СПб., 2007, с. 60АрхивированоКоряков Юрий База данных «Этно-языковой состав населённых пунктов России». Ленинградская область.Административно-территориальное деление Ленинградской области. — СПб, 1997, ISBN 5-86153-055-6, С. 41АрхивированоКультовый комплекс Старые Смолеговицы // Электронная энциклопедия ЭрмитажаПроблемы выявления, изучения и сохранения культовых комплексов с каменными крестами: по материалам работ 2016-2017 гг. в Ленинградской области