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Is honey really a supersaturated solution? Does heating to un-crystalize redissolve it or melt it?
Why does chocolate ice cream melt faster than others?Does supersaturated caffeine polymerize?How do you melt metals with super high melting points?Prevent crystal growth by adding a chemical to a solution?How does ice melt?How would mixing sea salt and honey affect the water activity of honey?How could uranium be extracted from ore to be melt?Why add specifically hot solvent during recrystallization procedures instead of heating it up after?How do Invert Sugars deter crystallization in Sucrose solutions?If we start heating a substance, does it melt when we break its intermolecular bonds?
$begingroup$
In the SciShow video Honey: Bacteria's Worst Enemy after about 00:30
the narrator says:
Honey is only about 17% water. Most, but not all of what remains is sugar. The two main types of sugar in honey are glucose and fructose. Like all sugars, glucose and fructose are sticky — they attract water.
Honey is technically a supersaturated solution, meaning it contains more sugar than would normally dissolve at that temperature. That’s why it eventually gets all crystally in the pantry — over time, sugar comes out of the solution.
In my experience when old honey "gets all crystally in the pantry" I've placed the jar in a hot water bath, and eventually the honey's viscous liquidy consistency is restored.
When I do this, am I redissolving the sugar, or melting it?
I'm asking because even hot, with only 17% water it's hard to imagine it can become an unsaturated solution.
everyday-chemistry solubility melting-point recrystallization viscosity
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In the SciShow video Honey: Bacteria's Worst Enemy after about 00:30
the narrator says:
Honey is only about 17% water. Most, but not all of what remains is sugar. The two main types of sugar in honey are glucose and fructose. Like all sugars, glucose and fructose are sticky — they attract water.
Honey is technically a supersaturated solution, meaning it contains more sugar than would normally dissolve at that temperature. That’s why it eventually gets all crystally in the pantry — over time, sugar comes out of the solution.
In my experience when old honey "gets all crystally in the pantry" I've placed the jar in a hot water bath, and eventually the honey's viscous liquidy consistency is restored.
When I do this, am I redissolving the sugar, or melting it?
I'm asking because even hot, with only 17% water it's hard to imagine it can become an unsaturated solution.
everyday-chemistry solubility melting-point recrystallization viscosity
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In the SciShow video Honey: Bacteria's Worst Enemy after about 00:30
the narrator says:
Honey is only about 17% water. Most, but not all of what remains is sugar. The two main types of sugar in honey are glucose and fructose. Like all sugars, glucose and fructose are sticky — they attract water.
Honey is technically a supersaturated solution, meaning it contains more sugar than would normally dissolve at that temperature. That’s why it eventually gets all crystally in the pantry — over time, sugar comes out of the solution.
In my experience when old honey "gets all crystally in the pantry" I've placed the jar in a hot water bath, and eventually the honey's viscous liquidy consistency is restored.
When I do this, am I redissolving the sugar, or melting it?
I'm asking because even hot, with only 17% water it's hard to imagine it can become an unsaturated solution.
everyday-chemistry solubility melting-point recrystallization viscosity
$endgroup$
In the SciShow video Honey: Bacteria's Worst Enemy after about 00:30
the narrator says:
Honey is only about 17% water. Most, but not all of what remains is sugar. The two main types of sugar in honey are glucose and fructose. Like all sugars, glucose and fructose are sticky — they attract water.
Honey is technically a supersaturated solution, meaning it contains more sugar than would normally dissolve at that temperature. That’s why it eventually gets all crystally in the pantry — over time, sugar comes out of the solution.
In my experience when old honey "gets all crystally in the pantry" I've placed the jar in a hot water bath, and eventually the honey's viscous liquidy consistency is restored.
When I do this, am I redissolving the sugar, or melting it?
I'm asking because even hot, with only 17% water it's hard to imagine it can become an unsaturated solution.
everyday-chemistry solubility melting-point recrystallization viscosity
everyday-chemistry solubility melting-point recrystallization viscosity
edited yesterday
uhoh
asked yesterday
uhohuhoh
1,586838
1,586838
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Honey is indeed a complex mixture containing more than hundred compounds.
As for Wikipedia and depending on the point of view it is a
supersatured liquid solution
a viscous supercooled liquid (in the sense that can get so viscous to appear solid, without affecting its status of being a supersatured solution, and undergoes glass transition).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Physical_and_chemical_properties
The facts that you describe in the Q are less surprising if we consider that
with respect to sugars crystallization, of which at least there are two different ones, glucose and fructose, the rest of the non-sugar components must be considered as impurities;
impurities, even in traces, often hamper the crystallisation of a compound, even in simple mixture of a single compound and the above traces. This is common after organic synthesis, in which often a viscous "oil" is attained that might crystallize only upon prolonged storage or a careful removal of the disturbing trace compound(s);
finally and most important, the solubility of sugars in water is very high, and very sensitive to T. For instance, already at room temperature glucose is soluble in the reason of 90 g per 100 ml of water, that means a saturated solution contains already about fifty percent w/w of sugar.
A table is here (I didn't cross checked the values):
http://www.mpcfaculty.net/mark_bishop/supersaturated.htm
All this makes the attainment of a supersatured solution particularly easy, as in the kitchen in the case of sucrose:
https://sciencing.com/make-supersaturated-solution-sugar-6199355.html
As such, heating crystallized honey does indeed dissolve sugars, and a supersaturated solution is attained upon subsequent cooling.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
In the circumstances the other answer is more than valid. What is peculiar is the easy to maintain the super-saturation regime (ie the resistance to crystallisation). @uhoh
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
yesterday
$begingroup$
You might add the high viscosity to the list. Just about everything is slow in honey.
$endgroup$
– Karl
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Karl I thought the •supercooled entry did the job. Shall I put it more in connection with slow crystallisation?
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think so. Supercooled water is still very much like water, and the viscosity of sugar solutions does not rise differently above the solubility limit.
$endgroup$
– Karl
10 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Melting and dissolving are all the same when you look at mixtures close to saturation.
You can say water lowers the melting point of the sugar, or that the solubility of sugar increases with temperature. Different description, same fact.
What makes this seem different from e.g. a salt water solution is that the molten (i.e. non-crystalline) sugar is fully miscible with water, which is only possible because the m.p. of sugar is not so far above the Bp. of water. If you go to high pressures (like in earth's mantle), the situation between (supercritical) water and rock is probably very similar.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Is this a general principle in chemistry (for supersaturated solutions), or does it mostly apply to saturated solutions of sugar?
$endgroup$
– uhoh
yesterday
4
$begingroup$
I would call it a non-principle. ;-) If you think about a saltwater solution, you would clearly use the word "solubility". There's a large miscibility gap. Molten sugar and water however are completely miscible, the Bp of one and Mp of the other are closeby.
$endgroup$
– Karl
yesterday
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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active
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
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oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Honey is indeed a complex mixture containing more than hundred compounds.
As for Wikipedia and depending on the point of view it is a
supersatured liquid solution
a viscous supercooled liquid (in the sense that can get so viscous to appear solid, without affecting its status of being a supersatured solution, and undergoes glass transition).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Physical_and_chemical_properties
The facts that you describe in the Q are less surprising if we consider that
with respect to sugars crystallization, of which at least there are two different ones, glucose and fructose, the rest of the non-sugar components must be considered as impurities;
impurities, even in traces, often hamper the crystallisation of a compound, even in simple mixture of a single compound and the above traces. This is common after organic synthesis, in which often a viscous "oil" is attained that might crystallize only upon prolonged storage or a careful removal of the disturbing trace compound(s);
finally and most important, the solubility of sugars in water is very high, and very sensitive to T. For instance, already at room temperature glucose is soluble in the reason of 90 g per 100 ml of water, that means a saturated solution contains already about fifty percent w/w of sugar.
A table is here (I didn't cross checked the values):
http://www.mpcfaculty.net/mark_bishop/supersaturated.htm
All this makes the attainment of a supersatured solution particularly easy, as in the kitchen in the case of sucrose:
https://sciencing.com/make-supersaturated-solution-sugar-6199355.html
As such, heating crystallized honey does indeed dissolve sugars, and a supersaturated solution is attained upon subsequent cooling.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
In the circumstances the other answer is more than valid. What is peculiar is the easy to maintain the super-saturation regime (ie the resistance to crystallisation). @uhoh
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
yesterday
$begingroup$
You might add the high viscosity to the list. Just about everything is slow in honey.
$endgroup$
– Karl
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Karl I thought the •supercooled entry did the job. Shall I put it more in connection with slow crystallisation?
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think so. Supercooled water is still very much like water, and the viscosity of sugar solutions does not rise differently above the solubility limit.
$endgroup$
– Karl
10 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Honey is indeed a complex mixture containing more than hundred compounds.
As for Wikipedia and depending on the point of view it is a
supersatured liquid solution
a viscous supercooled liquid (in the sense that can get so viscous to appear solid, without affecting its status of being a supersatured solution, and undergoes glass transition).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Physical_and_chemical_properties
The facts that you describe in the Q are less surprising if we consider that
with respect to sugars crystallization, of which at least there are two different ones, glucose and fructose, the rest of the non-sugar components must be considered as impurities;
impurities, even in traces, often hamper the crystallisation of a compound, even in simple mixture of a single compound and the above traces. This is common after organic synthesis, in which often a viscous "oil" is attained that might crystallize only upon prolonged storage or a careful removal of the disturbing trace compound(s);
finally and most important, the solubility of sugars in water is very high, and very sensitive to T. For instance, already at room temperature glucose is soluble in the reason of 90 g per 100 ml of water, that means a saturated solution contains already about fifty percent w/w of sugar.
A table is here (I didn't cross checked the values):
http://www.mpcfaculty.net/mark_bishop/supersaturated.htm
All this makes the attainment of a supersatured solution particularly easy, as in the kitchen in the case of sucrose:
https://sciencing.com/make-supersaturated-solution-sugar-6199355.html
As such, heating crystallized honey does indeed dissolve sugars, and a supersaturated solution is attained upon subsequent cooling.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
In the circumstances the other answer is more than valid. What is peculiar is the easy to maintain the super-saturation regime (ie the resistance to crystallisation). @uhoh
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
yesterday
$begingroup$
You might add the high viscosity to the list. Just about everything is slow in honey.
$endgroup$
– Karl
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Karl I thought the •supercooled entry did the job. Shall I put it more in connection with slow crystallisation?
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think so. Supercooled water is still very much like water, and the viscosity of sugar solutions does not rise differently above the solubility limit.
$endgroup$
– Karl
10 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Honey is indeed a complex mixture containing more than hundred compounds.
As for Wikipedia and depending on the point of view it is a
supersatured liquid solution
a viscous supercooled liquid (in the sense that can get so viscous to appear solid, without affecting its status of being a supersatured solution, and undergoes glass transition).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Physical_and_chemical_properties
The facts that you describe in the Q are less surprising if we consider that
with respect to sugars crystallization, of which at least there are two different ones, glucose and fructose, the rest of the non-sugar components must be considered as impurities;
impurities, even in traces, often hamper the crystallisation of a compound, even in simple mixture of a single compound and the above traces. This is common after organic synthesis, in which often a viscous "oil" is attained that might crystallize only upon prolonged storage or a careful removal of the disturbing trace compound(s);
finally and most important, the solubility of sugars in water is very high, and very sensitive to T. For instance, already at room temperature glucose is soluble in the reason of 90 g per 100 ml of water, that means a saturated solution contains already about fifty percent w/w of sugar.
A table is here (I didn't cross checked the values):
http://www.mpcfaculty.net/mark_bishop/supersaturated.htm
All this makes the attainment of a supersatured solution particularly easy, as in the kitchen in the case of sucrose:
https://sciencing.com/make-supersaturated-solution-sugar-6199355.html
As such, heating crystallized honey does indeed dissolve sugars, and a supersaturated solution is attained upon subsequent cooling.
$endgroup$
Honey is indeed a complex mixture containing more than hundred compounds.
As for Wikipedia and depending on the point of view it is a
supersatured liquid solution
a viscous supercooled liquid (in the sense that can get so viscous to appear solid, without affecting its status of being a supersatured solution, and undergoes glass transition).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Physical_and_chemical_properties
The facts that you describe in the Q are less surprising if we consider that
with respect to sugars crystallization, of which at least there are two different ones, glucose and fructose, the rest of the non-sugar components must be considered as impurities;
impurities, even in traces, often hamper the crystallisation of a compound, even in simple mixture of a single compound and the above traces. This is common after organic synthesis, in which often a viscous "oil" is attained that might crystallize only upon prolonged storage or a careful removal of the disturbing trace compound(s);
finally and most important, the solubility of sugars in water is very high, and very sensitive to T. For instance, already at room temperature glucose is soluble in the reason of 90 g per 100 ml of water, that means a saturated solution contains already about fifty percent w/w of sugar.
A table is here (I didn't cross checked the values):
http://www.mpcfaculty.net/mark_bishop/supersaturated.htm
All this makes the attainment of a supersatured solution particularly easy, as in the kitchen in the case of sucrose:
https://sciencing.com/make-supersaturated-solution-sugar-6199355.html
As such, heating crystallized honey does indeed dissolve sugars, and a supersaturated solution is attained upon subsequent cooling.
edited 8 hours ago
answered yesterday
AlchimistaAlchimista
1,83739
1,83739
1
$begingroup$
In the circumstances the other answer is more than valid. What is peculiar is the easy to maintain the super-saturation regime (ie the resistance to crystallisation). @uhoh
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
yesterday
$begingroup$
You might add the high viscosity to the list. Just about everything is slow in honey.
$endgroup$
– Karl
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Karl I thought the •supercooled entry did the job. Shall I put it more in connection with slow crystallisation?
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think so. Supercooled water is still very much like water, and the viscosity of sugar solutions does not rise differently above the solubility limit.
$endgroup$
– Karl
10 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
In the circumstances the other answer is more than valid. What is peculiar is the easy to maintain the super-saturation regime (ie the resistance to crystallisation). @uhoh
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
yesterday
$begingroup$
You might add the high viscosity to the list. Just about everything is slow in honey.
$endgroup$
– Karl
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Karl I thought the •supercooled entry did the job. Shall I put it more in connection with slow crystallisation?
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think so. Supercooled water is still very much like water, and the viscosity of sugar solutions does not rise differently above the solubility limit.
$endgroup$
– Karl
10 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
In the circumstances the other answer is more than valid. What is peculiar is the easy to maintain the super-saturation regime (ie the resistance to crystallisation). @uhoh
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
yesterday
$begingroup$
In the circumstances the other answer is more than valid. What is peculiar is the easy to maintain the super-saturation regime (ie the resistance to crystallisation). @uhoh
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
yesterday
$begingroup$
You might add the high viscosity to the list. Just about everything is slow in honey.
$endgroup$
– Karl
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
You might add the high viscosity to the list. Just about everything is slow in honey.
$endgroup$
– Karl
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Karl I thought the •supercooled entry did the job. Shall I put it more in connection with slow crystallisation?
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Karl I thought the •supercooled entry did the job. Shall I put it more in connection with slow crystallisation?
$endgroup$
– Alchimista
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think so. Supercooled water is still very much like water, and the viscosity of sugar solutions does not rise differently above the solubility limit.
$endgroup$
– Karl
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
I think so. Supercooled water is still very much like water, and the viscosity of sugar solutions does not rise differently above the solubility limit.
$endgroup$
– Karl
10 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Melting and dissolving are all the same when you look at mixtures close to saturation.
You can say water lowers the melting point of the sugar, or that the solubility of sugar increases with temperature. Different description, same fact.
What makes this seem different from e.g. a salt water solution is that the molten (i.e. non-crystalline) sugar is fully miscible with water, which is only possible because the m.p. of sugar is not so far above the Bp. of water. If you go to high pressures (like in earth's mantle), the situation between (supercritical) water and rock is probably very similar.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Is this a general principle in chemistry (for supersaturated solutions), or does it mostly apply to saturated solutions of sugar?
$endgroup$
– uhoh
yesterday
4
$begingroup$
I would call it a non-principle. ;-) If you think about a saltwater solution, you would clearly use the word "solubility". There's a large miscibility gap. Molten sugar and water however are completely miscible, the Bp of one and Mp of the other are closeby.
$endgroup$
– Karl
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Melting and dissolving are all the same when you look at mixtures close to saturation.
You can say water lowers the melting point of the sugar, or that the solubility of sugar increases with temperature. Different description, same fact.
What makes this seem different from e.g. a salt water solution is that the molten (i.e. non-crystalline) sugar is fully miscible with water, which is only possible because the m.p. of sugar is not so far above the Bp. of water. If you go to high pressures (like in earth's mantle), the situation between (supercritical) water and rock is probably very similar.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Is this a general principle in chemistry (for supersaturated solutions), or does it mostly apply to saturated solutions of sugar?
$endgroup$
– uhoh
yesterday
4
$begingroup$
I would call it a non-principle. ;-) If you think about a saltwater solution, you would clearly use the word "solubility". There's a large miscibility gap. Molten sugar and water however are completely miscible, the Bp of one and Mp of the other are closeby.
$endgroup$
– Karl
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Melting and dissolving are all the same when you look at mixtures close to saturation.
You can say water lowers the melting point of the sugar, or that the solubility of sugar increases with temperature. Different description, same fact.
What makes this seem different from e.g. a salt water solution is that the molten (i.e. non-crystalline) sugar is fully miscible with water, which is only possible because the m.p. of sugar is not so far above the Bp. of water. If you go to high pressures (like in earth's mantle), the situation between (supercritical) water and rock is probably very similar.
$endgroup$
Melting and dissolving are all the same when you look at mixtures close to saturation.
You can say water lowers the melting point of the sugar, or that the solubility of sugar increases with temperature. Different description, same fact.
What makes this seem different from e.g. a salt water solution is that the molten (i.e. non-crystalline) sugar is fully miscible with water, which is only possible because the m.p. of sugar is not so far above the Bp. of water. If you go to high pressures (like in earth's mantle), the situation between (supercritical) water and rock is probably very similar.
edited 13 hours ago
answered yesterday
KarlKarl
6,1521433
6,1521433
$begingroup$
Is this a general principle in chemistry (for supersaturated solutions), or does it mostly apply to saturated solutions of sugar?
$endgroup$
– uhoh
yesterday
4
$begingroup$
I would call it a non-principle. ;-) If you think about a saltwater solution, you would clearly use the word "solubility". There's a large miscibility gap. Molten sugar and water however are completely miscible, the Bp of one and Mp of the other are closeby.
$endgroup$
– Karl
yesterday
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Is this a general principle in chemistry (for supersaturated solutions), or does it mostly apply to saturated solutions of sugar?
$endgroup$
– uhoh
yesterday
4
$begingroup$
I would call it a non-principle. ;-) If you think about a saltwater solution, you would clearly use the word "solubility". There's a large miscibility gap. Molten sugar and water however are completely miscible, the Bp of one and Mp of the other are closeby.
$endgroup$
– Karl
yesterday
$begingroup$
Is this a general principle in chemistry (for supersaturated solutions), or does it mostly apply to saturated solutions of sugar?
$endgroup$
– uhoh
yesterday
$begingroup$
Is this a general principle in chemistry (for supersaturated solutions), or does it mostly apply to saturated solutions of sugar?
$endgroup$
– uhoh
yesterday
4
4
$begingroup$
I would call it a non-principle. ;-) If you think about a saltwater solution, you would clearly use the word "solubility". There's a large miscibility gap. Molten sugar and water however are completely miscible, the Bp of one and Mp of the other are closeby.
$endgroup$
– Karl
yesterday
$begingroup$
I would call it a non-principle. ;-) If you think about a saltwater solution, you would clearly use the word "solubility". There's a large miscibility gap. Molten sugar and water however are completely miscible, the Bp of one and Mp of the other are closeby.
$endgroup$
– Karl
yesterday
add a comment |
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StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
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StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
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Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown